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Allies and Rivals; A public discussion thread regarding how factions are viewing each other.
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Topic Started: Nov 16 2014, 06:46 PM (3,524 Views)
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silencermage
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Nov 18 2014, 08:54 AM
Post #41
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Research and Devlelopment
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To add on to what storm said I think to really determine who SI lore wise would ally with in general would be decided through who would be considered the lead champion for the shadow isles. For example karthus who is actually very knowledgeable and in tune with the whole aspect of life and death would most likely see much to gain by befriending ionia if not to just further his goal of understanding how life transitions to death. Then you have the champions like mord and hecrim who seek nothing but death and power if we were to have them be considered the leaders of SI then there would be no allies at all only war and death. I as a SI summoner speak for myself when I say that SI could gain a good source of knowledge and power from ionia not to mention I'd rather not assist the two current best factions. Plus Revolutionist seems like good guy in my book =D. But also if I had to choose a leader to follow in SI I would support karthus ideals and thoughts.
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AbiwonKenabi
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Nov 18 2014, 09:04 AM
Post #42
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Sorcerer
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- Licantus
- Nov 17 2014, 11:26 PM
I think you are forcing factions to make alliance with each other and this is not good story-wise. Take for example the Hextech arc: Piltover and BC allied together only AFTER they aided each other in the previous chapters AND because they have a lot of point in common AND also both weren't going well. This is what is missing in this arc: a reason why a faction should ally with another, when each faction has made only its own interests so far and have interacted only with petitions and espionage, but not in the field. Most of the comments I read in this thread are made from the point of view of a Faction player and not from a summoner of a faction (most, not all) this isn't the reason I came to Factions. I want LORE not mechanical thinking!! Sure, the mechanic should serve to manage the lore, but if something make no sense.. it make no sense! From the point of view of Bilgewater, making an alliance with the only faction which don't hate us (SI) make no sense. The only reason to do that is to avoid that all the other three factions group together against Bilge, a thing that's impossible lore-wise because the other factions all have point of view totally different from each other. Honestly, why Ionia, who seeks balance, would end up with SI? And the same is true for Freljord, now that Ashe is in lead. Maybe if they change leader with Lissandra, they can found a common point in the use of magic, but it's still unlikely now. For SI: you can do better than what you have done so far, but form an alliance that make no sense isn't the solution. Be pride and climb the ladder yourself, then we can face togheter face to skull! Arrrr!!! A last thing: considered all the above, I think that this thread should be called "Neutrals and Rivals", and in light of that for me Bilge is neutral to SI and rival to Ionia and Freljord (this not by its choice). I hope all of this will be helpful, I tried to organize all the brainstorming I had in mind during the writing. I can definitely see where you are coming from. There's really no faction currently participating in this arc that I could see Ionia plausibly being ok with allying with, without some sort of turn of events. And that's not the only faction with issues.
I'm a fan of forming temporary alliances for a specified purpose or goal. For example, if Ionia and Bilgewater both want to petition for a Tertiary champion, Ionia can approach the summoners of Bilge and ask for support for their petition in exchange for support for one of Bilge's. Or--another example--Shadow Isles find the Kaiden-bako in Nyroth, Ionia has...death scrolls or something of value to SI, so they make a mutually beneficial exchange.
Its doesn't have to be an "aligned for life" sort of deal. And who knows? If enough of those types of things happen, maybe two factions will want to go into a long-term alliance, a la Bandle and Piltover--two factions, mind you, have a long history with one another and had an event leading up to their alignment.
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Licantus
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Nov 18 2014, 09:21 AM
Post #43
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Conjurer
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- runesage86
- Nov 18 2014, 06:43 AM
Freljord has problems with balance right now, but in Ionia, we're confident their political situation will reach an equilibrium. Ashe values peace, and Sejuani values war. Lissandra is probably the most balanced between the two, but we don't know much about her.
I agree with StormRevolver. Death is the ultimate balance to life, and as the beings from SI are the only dead we can reach, now that Zed destroyed our Kaiden-bako. We're working on that. Also, the Kaiden-bako that we might discover may have some use for the entities in SI.
Finally, Bilgewater. It may have a reputation that might be a little detrimental towards order, but it's recent actions in gifting the Marai the moonstone for free, restoring a major balance in the ocean, impressed me, and probably other Ionians. Good point about the Death topic between Ionia and SI, I hadn't thought about it. Still, they aren't friends at all if we look at their actions till now. You have to work a lot on it if you want to build some good relationship and make compromises, because the Death that SI brings isn't so balanced.
About Bilgewater and Ionia: I have always considered the possibility of an alliance, but it seems that Ionia didn't want to, rather quite the opposite. So now pirates hate ninjas.
Still I feel alliances are forced at this moment and I feel myself forced to make a decision.
EDIT:- AbiwonKenabi
- Nov 18 2014, 09:04 AM
I'm a fan of forming temporary alliances for a specified purpose or goal. For example, if Ionia and Bilgewater both want to petition for a Tertiary champion, Ionia can approach the summoners of Bilge and ask for support for their petition in exchange for support for one of Bilge's. Or--another example--Shadow Isles find the Kaiden-bako in Nyroth, Ionia has...death scrolls or something of value to SI, so they make a mutually beneficial exchange. This is good! If the opportunity should arise of some temporary alliances I will be with it. But deciding general alliances now seems forced to me- silencermage
- Nov 18 2014, 08:54 AM
To add on to what storm said I think to really determine who SI lore wise would ally with in general would be decided through who would be considered the lead champion for the shadow isles. For example karthus who is actually very knowledgeable and in tune with the whole aspect of life and death would most likely see much to gain by befriending ionia if not to just further his goal of understanding how life transitions to death. Then you have the champions like mord and hecrim who seek nothing but death and power if we were to have them be considered the leaders of SI then there would be no allies at all only war and death. I as a SI summoner speak for myself when I say that SI could gain a good source of knowledge and power from ionia not to mention I'd rather not assist the two current best factions. Plus Revolutionist seems like good guy in my book =D. But also if I had to choose a leader to follow in SI I would support karthus ideals and thoughts. Another good point here! SI seems to be less united about their goals and having a leader may be helpful.
Edited by Licantus, Nov 18 2014, 09:42 AM.
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StormRevolver
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Nov 18 2014, 04:15 PM
Post #44
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Magus
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- Naggarok
- Nov 17 2014, 05:17 PM
- StormRevolver
- Nov 17 2014, 04:31 PM
i think everyone else said whats relevant about SI alliance stuff, so what im a bit more interested is, that why isnt bilge getting friendly with bandle city instead of zaun? i mean bandle helped fiz and nami, so i tought that bilge with nami as a leader would hover more over bandle's side than zaun but as far as i can tell it feels like they are still more friendly to zaun.
For the record, Bandle City never helped Nami in any way, shape, or form seeing as how they picked Braum over her and the submarines were only looking for the Atlanteans. The only reason I see why Nami was included was because Cupcake didn't want The Moonstone plot point he had been thinking about to go to waste since nothing Bandle did showed any interest about the Marai besides the final project votes of Splashy Time, which was also going to be mainly for the Atlanteans. So Nami probably wouldn't be really keen on them due to Noxian presence in Bilgewater and the fact that she really has no ties to BC besides Fizz, especially seeing as the only reason she came to them in the first place is because they could go to the moon. Also chances are Bilgewater sees Bandle City as looting material since it's defenses are poor and the majority of its shipping is liable to water-based as it's completely isolated form the rest of civilization behind two mountain ranges. There's also the fact that Bandle is doing the whole "Zaun and Noxus are EVILLLLLLLLL" which are a giant commerce source and Bilgewater's main supplier of military presence respectively. Also, Bandle City has shown itself to be almost completely dishonest when it comes to anything and everything, so why bother being friends with someone whose going to stab you in back immediately anyway. As for Bandle cities research situation, it's actually better than you think because the Velectronic Rail(the other option) is better suited as an industry project. Splashy Time City will probably be only at 500 research due to the Atlanteans being found. So when they finish their current projects they'll be able to do both at the same time instead of just one, so yeah they won't be overtly screwed. Final Note: Bandle City is currently at -21 Favor. The Void was ranked higher in favor until it was decided that the Void couldn't actually petition anything because of the "Eat Everything" argument being rather weak. this is what i would expect from gangplank, but i tought nami would have some moral issues with zaun especialy since they had going for the void for a long time (well it seems like they will stop doing that i hope) considering it seems like they are fighting the void under the sea.
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Sodaman64
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Nov 18 2014, 04:51 PM
Post #45
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It's My Town Now
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So I haven't read everything in this post yet but just a quick opinion form me as a Bilge summoner. Lore wise the only one's I could see us allying with is Shadow Isles (If we we're under Gangplank's management.) and The Frejlord if they were being lead by Sejuani. We're Pirates I'm sure we wouldn't have a hard time finding people around Runeterra who would listen to Karthus' sermons "willingly". And I'm sure that they have lots of dead people gold just lying around. I'm sure that Sejuani wouldn't mind us talking a share of the loot if we helped her raid some places either but she doesn't seem the type to want outside help so it's unlikely.
An alliance with Ionia will never happen. I considered it once a long time ago but with their actions towards us during this arc sorry but I guess Pirates and Ninjas will be enemies forever.
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darkomega242
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Nov 18 2014, 05:17 PM
Post #46
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It is K
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Ionia are being jerks who spys on us and can't read without a book exploding on their faces. Frejlord is tripolar as heck. I for one welcome our new undead over-I mean,allys.
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Wizard996
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Nov 18 2014, 05:43 PM
Post #47
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Random Silver Scrub
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I certainly can agree that alliances seem a bit forced right now, and temporary alliances are the way to go. Although the words about how some Ionians were impressed by Bilge being good and helping with the Moonstone and such, your espionage efforts seem a bit in favor against us. I mean, as was pointed out earlier, Bilge aided Ionia slightly during the Shon-Xan, which lorewise actually might put us on good terms with them. Plus, a ninja and pirate alliance would be devastating to the internet. I have actually been pushing an alliance with the Isles, but I may be biased as they would have been my secondary choice if I didn't end up going with Bilge. Freljord is simply too tripolar to see us going with us in the near future, until they start showing consistency in their actions. Yeah, alliances shouldn't be forced upon the players, but a good back and forth for supporting petitions might go a long way...if only someone were willing to take the first step (and Freljord, don't say anything about doing that, as you did espionage on us twice since then).
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Tofuology
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Nov 18 2014, 06:08 PM
Post #48
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Nya Nya~
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Ionia here!
Honestly, with Bilge, if they want to continue to stay salty, let them. We don't really care to have an alliance with you. Ever.
As for Freljord, I honestly haven't looked too much into this. From what I see here, all I'm reading is "They're so tripolar, so we don't want to group with them". That statement, to me, sounds stupid as hell. But I wouldn't mind teaming up with them, even if it is for a petition or two.
Shadow Isles is the faction I am leaning towards to. Life and death are basically balancing each other out, and we'd make a great fit with each other. Sure, we had bad blood. But we actually patched things up quite nicely (unlike a certain faction) and doesn't hold a GRUDGE against us. I think we can both do pretty well if we formed an alliance with SI.
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Kwon Ri Sae
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Nov 18 2014, 06:19 PM
Post #49
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Name Changer Extraordinare
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Looks like everybody wants the Shadow Isles as an ally
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ChroniclerC
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Nov 18 2014, 07:05 PM
Post #50
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Submit to the Void
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- Revoluxionist
- Nov 18 2014, 06:08 PM
Ionia here!
Honestly, with Bilge, if they want to continue to stay salty, let them. We don't really care to have an alliance with you. Ever.
As for Freljord, I honestly haven't looked too much into this. From what I see here, all I'm reading is "They're so tripolar, so we don't want to group with them". That statement, to me, sounds stupid as hell. But I wouldn't mind teaming up with them, even if it is for a petition or two.
Shadow Isles is the faction I am leaning towards to. Life and death are basically balancing each other out, and we'd make a great fit with each other. Sure, we had bad blood. But we actually patched things up quite nicely (unlike a certain faction) and doesn't hold a GRUDGE against us. I think we can both do pretty well if we formed an alliance with SI. No, we kind of have a grudge. But we also have bigger problems than a stupid grudge.
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Tofuology
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Nov 18 2014, 08:44 PM
Post #51
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Nya Nya~
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- ChroniclerC
- Nov 18 2014, 07:05 PM
- Revoluxionist
- Nov 18 2014, 06:08 PM
Ionia here!
Honestly, with Bilge, if they want to continue to stay salty, let them. We don't really care to have an alliance with you. Ever.
As for Freljord, I honestly haven't looked too much into this. From what I see here, all I'm reading is "They're so tripolar, so we don't want to group with them". That statement, to me, sounds stupid as hell. But I wouldn't mind teaming up with them, even if it is for a petition or two.
Shadow Isles is the faction I am leaning towards to. Life and death are basically balancing each other out, and we'd make a great fit with each other. Sure, we had bad blood. But we actually patched things up quite nicely (unlike a certain faction) and doesn't hold a GRUDGE against us. I think we can both do pretty well if we formed an alliance with SI.
No, we kind of have a grudge. But we also have bigger problems than a stupid grudge. Naw man, I've been told majority of you guys have already let go of the grudge that you've had against us. There's just a small group of you who are acting like the rebel army thinking it's still ok to hate.
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runesage86
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Nov 19 2014, 06:16 AM
Post #52
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Acolyte of the Kinkou
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OK, here's my thoughts on Freljord. I kind of glossed over it last time. Ashe and Sejuani are both good leaders. However, I think that the most likely chance for Ionia to ally with them would be if Lissandra was a leader. She and the Frostguard are a balance between the peaceful Avarosans and the warlike Winter's Claw.
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Kaynunot
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Nov 21 2014, 12:08 AM
Post #53
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
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So I'm reading a lot of this... And I have to make a few points for the Shadow Isles as I have perhaps been a vocal part of it (before my other account got deleted for some weird reason) and I was vocal in The Hextech Revolution (I was part of the problem of being a loud mouth bragger who whined when Zaun was getting owned, I own that.)
The Shadow Isles elected to erect a Void Spire because A) Our Champion Pool SUCKED. It still kind of does, to be honest, but we were desperate, didn't know how to play non-meta, and didn't know about Kalista (Hopefully CupcakeTrap lets us pick her up if we win our petition) B) Our other options SUCKED. They were SEVERELY underpowered and offered us next to nothing. Void Spire gave us something, something with POWER, not just Lore but In-Game too. When CupcakeTrap buffed our other options, and Kalista was teased, Void Spire lost it's influence because we have options and absolutely everyone is tired of Discord at this point, us included. We felt backed into a corner, but since CupcakeTrap let us pick again and buffed the other stuff, we weren't.
For the Petition against Bilgewater, here's our reasoning: We had 8 hours to decide on a petition, we chose to oppose Bilgewater because they were shooting for something really high and we wanted to hinder them. We failed, and though animosity still exists, the fact is it was Just Business, and we can put that aside and be nice because we FAILED to stop your Petition. Bilgewater doesn't need us, we shouldn't act like they do, but we both have something the other wants, Shadow Isles wants Commerce, Navy, all that good stuff, and Bilgewater wants a Military, something The Shadow Isles have in spades (ESPECIALLY if you build a Warpgate... then we can bring our Full Military and WE HAVE A FREAKING BONE DRAGON!)
Now, for Ionia, that's a whole different story. Why? Because you Blocked Our Secondary Champion Petition. 'But we couldn't convince them against it' Yea, that's a nice apology and all, BUT WE WERE IN LAST PLACE! We had absolutely no hope at the time, and you decided to kick us while we were down. 'But it was in the past!' Nope, I don't even play League anymore and I STILL feel that wound, you aren't getting an Alliance from us this arc.
Shadow Isles has no reason to ally with the Frejlord, I'm gonna be blunt... I don't see any reason in the whole freaking world unless Frejlord picked Lissandra and even then I wonder what she could possibly offer us.
So I'm being that really vocal minority right now but Shadow Isles will remain Forever Salty over losing Sion or Amumu. Bilgewater offers us a lot more than Ionia, and Ionia is totally being Bandle City 2.0 this arc, we don't need the toxicity or bad luck.
Before anyone asks, I have voted to support absolutely all petitions, and even not to backstab Ionia if they ask for our help because while I hold animosity towards Ionia, I still want to be at least reasonably polite to everyone and frankly I don't want to kick you while you are down. Still, If you expect me to get in a circle and sing Kumbiya, I would sooner ask Singed for a Zeppelin and plenty of Nitroglycerin so I can bomb you... AGAIN!
Edited by Kaynunot, Nov 21 2014, 12:57 AM.
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Tofuology
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Nov 21 2014, 02:30 AM
Post #54
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Nya Nya~
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- Kuronan
- Nov 21 2014, 12:08 AM
For the Petition against Bilgewater, here's our reasoning: We had 8 hours to decide on a petition, we chose to oppose Bilgewater because they were shooting for something really high and we wanted to hinder them. We failed, and though animosity still exists, the fact is it was Just Business, and we can put that aside and be nice because we FAILED to stop your Petition. Bilgewater doesn't need us, we shouldn't act like they do, but we both have something the other wants, Shadow Isles wants Commerce, Navy, all that good stuff, and Bilgewater wants a Military, something The Shadow Isles have in spades (ESPECIALLY if you build a Warpgate... then we can bring our Full Military and WE HAVE A FREAKING BONE DRAGON!)
Now, for Ionia, that's a whole different story. Why? Because you Blocked Our Secondary Champion Petition. 'But we couldn't convince them against it' Yea, that's a nice apology and all, BUT WE WERE IN LAST PLACE! We had absolutely no hope at the time, and you decided to kick us while we were down. 'But it was in the past!' Nope, I don't even play League anymore and I STILL feel that wound, you aren't getting an Alliance from us this arc. Lol, we were in the exact same scenario, but yet, you're still salty about that? Let the grudge go dude. Even if you're not playing LoL anymore, let it go.
You understand that you guys got us back with us losing a champ and purple side in weekend games, right? In fact, that's the second time you guys decided to aim at us, so Idk why you think you're entitled to be scot-free, but you blame Ionia for doing the exact same thing you did to someone else. Smells like a hypocrite to me.
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Kaynunot
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Nov 21 2014, 01:31 PM
Post #55
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
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- Revoluxionist
- Nov 21 2014, 02:30 AM
- Kuronan
- Nov 21 2014, 12:08 AM
For the Petition against Bilgewater, here's our reasoning: We had 8 hours to decide on a petition, we chose to oppose Bilgewater because they were shooting for something really high and we wanted to hinder them. We failed, and though animosity still exists, the fact is it was Just Business, and we can put that aside and be nice because we FAILED to stop your Petition. Bilgewater doesn't need us, we shouldn't act like they do, but we both have something the other wants, Shadow Isles wants Commerce, Navy, all that good stuff, and Bilgewater wants a Military, something The Shadow Isles have in spades (ESPECIALLY if you build a Warpgate... then we can bring our Full Military and WE HAVE A FREAKING BONE DRAGON!)
Now, for Ionia, that's a whole different story. Why? Because you Blocked Our Secondary Champion Petition. 'But we couldn't convince them against it' Yea, that's a nice apology and all, BUT WE WERE IN LAST PLACE! We had absolutely no hope at the time, and you decided to kick us while we were down. 'But it was in the past!' Nope, I don't even play League anymore and I STILL feel that wound, you aren't getting an Alliance from us this arc.
Lol, we were in the exact same scenario, but yet, you're still salty about that? Let the grudge go dude. Even if you're not playing LoL anymore, let it go. You understand that you guys got us back with us losing a champ and purple side in weekend games, right? In fact, that's the second time you guys decided to aim at us, so Idk why you think you're entitled to be scot-free, but you blame Ionia for doing the exact same thing you did to someone else. Smells like a hypocrite to me. Well, look at it like this: You have Varus, and you have Kennen... You have a Champion that can fit in nearly any meta aside from CC, and you have good disengage and poke. Shadow Isles has no ADC (aside from Kalista who we don't have yet, and Urgot who, let's be honest, is more of an AD Caster designed around Lane Bullying than an actual Carry) so we rely heavily on CC-Heavy Teamfights. Guess which Champions are freaking awesome at that? Sion and Amumu. Guess how many petitions we failed the get them... Two. Guess how many we failed because we were opposed? One. And who voted against us that one? Ionia.
We could potentially be in an even stronger spot than we are right now on the Balance of Power, but we aren't, Our Teamfights aren't as powerful as, say, Bilgewater or Frejlord because we don't have the CC to lock down our enemies and Sion or Amumu would have fixed that problem (though if we get Kalista this whole problem is moot because we'll have an ADC that's extremely Meta, if not Overpowered right now)
Plus (to my extremely limited knowledge) most recorded victories we have, especially in weekend featured matches, that the Shadow Isles have won are against Ionia. An Alliance isn't very smart simply for the fact we'd either need to fight each other to keep our score relative because our history against Bilgewater and Frejlord has been very lackluster, and competing more for 'Who's on Third' than 'How can we bring someone lower than us?' An Alliance with Bilgewater just make a lot more sense practically, they already have a commanding lead and all they need is a Military, Shadow Isles is doing solid in Lore Events (aside from the hiccup in Dauyux) and has the strongest military in the entire arc.
An alliance with the one faction we are strong AGAINST will only serve as a Detriment to us in the future. Bilgewater is nearly undefeated and the people we struggle most against, so allying with them will
- Serve us in that we can focus less on getting owned by Bilgewater and more on owning everyone else.
- Cement our power in the Lore by allying with a faction that covers our weaknesses. This would last a lot longer because both Bilgewater and Shadow Isles understand backstabbing Bilgewater would only work to our Detriment because they can beat our heads in when it comes to the Balance of Power, Tournaments and Featured Matches, so we're a lot less likely to do that than with Ionia.
- This is probably the most important, but if an alliance with Bilgewater works anything like it did for Piltover and Bandle City, both Factions get very powerful picks on the side (Shadow Isles gets champions like Graves, Katarina, and Fizz, while Bilgewater gets champions like Hecarim, Evelynn and Thresh) While Ionia certainly has strong Champions, I would go so far as to say Bilgewater's overall roster is superior.
Don't misjudge me, Ionia would have been my Second Faction if I didn't go to the Shadow Isles, and I love their lore, but this isn't a Practical Alliance, and Bilgewater is a practical alliance.
Edited by Kaynunot, Nov 21 2014, 01:38 PM.
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Tofuology
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Nov 21 2014, 01:42 PM
Post #56
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Nya Nya~
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- Kuronan
- Nov 21 2014, 01:31 PM
- Revoluxionist
- Nov 21 2014, 02:30 AM
- Kuronan
- Nov 21 2014, 12:08 AM
For the Petition against Bilgewater, here's our reasoning: We had 8 hours to decide on a petition, we chose to oppose Bilgewater because they were shooting for something really high and we wanted to hinder them. We failed, and though animosity still exists, the fact is it was Just Business, and we can put that aside and be nice because we FAILED to stop your Petition. Bilgewater doesn't need us, we shouldn't act like they do, but we both have something the other wants, Shadow Isles wants Commerce, Navy, all that good stuff, and Bilgewater wants a Military, something The Shadow Isles have in spades (ESPECIALLY if you build a Warpgate... then we can bring our Full Military and WE HAVE A FREAKING BONE DRAGON!)
Now, for Ionia, that's a whole different story. Why? Because you Blocked Our Secondary Champion Petition. 'But we couldn't convince them against it' Yea, that's a nice apology and all, BUT WE WERE IN LAST PLACE! We had absolutely no hope at the time, and you decided to kick us while we were down. 'But it was in the past!' Nope, I don't even play League anymore and I STILL feel that wound, you aren't getting an Alliance from us this arc.
Lol, we were in the exact same scenario, but yet, you're still salty about that? Let the grudge go dude. Even if you're not playing LoL anymore, let it go. You understand that you guys got us back with us losing a champ and purple side in weekend games, right? In fact, that's the second time you guys decided to aim at us, so Idk why you think you're entitled to be scot-free, but you blame Ionia for doing the exact same thing you did to someone else. Smells like a hypocrite to me.
Well, look at it like this: You have Varus, and you have Kennen... You have a Champion that can fit in nearly any meta aside from CC, and you have good disengage and poke. Shadow Isles has no ADC (aside from Kalista who we don't have yet, and Urgot who, let's be honest, is more of an AD Caster designed around Lane Bullying than an actual Carry) so we rely heavily on CC-Heavy Teamfights. Guess which Champions are freaking awesome at that? Sion and Amumu. Guess how many petitions we failed the get them... Two. Guess how many we failed because we were opposed? One. And who voted against us that one? Ionia. We could potentially be in an even stronger spot than we are right now on the Balance of Power, but we aren't, Our Teamfights aren't as powerful as, say, Bilgewater or Frejlord because we don't have the CC to lock down our enemies and Sion or Amumu would have fixed that problem (though if we get Kalista this whole problem is moot because we'll have an ADC that's extremely Meta, if not Overpowered right now) Plus (to my extremely limited knowledge) most recorded victories we have, especially in weekend featured matches, that the Shadow Isles have won are against Ionia. An Alliance isn't very smart simply for the fact we'd either need to fight each other to keep our score relative because our history against Bilgewater and Frejlord has been very lackluster, and competing more for 'Who's on Third' than 'How can we bring someone lower than us?' An Alliance with Bilgewater just make a lot more sense practically, they already have a commanding lead and all they need is a Military, Shadow Isles is doing solid in Lore Events (aside from the hiccup in Dauyux) and has the strongest military in the entire arc. An alliance with the one faction we are strong AGAINST will only serve as a Detriment to us in the future. Bilgewater is nearly undefeated and the people we struggle most against, so allying with them will
- Serve us in that we can focus less on getting owned by Bilgewater and more on owning everyone else.
- Cement our power in the Lore by allying with a faction that covers our weaknesses. This would last a lot longer because both Bilgewater and Shadow Isles understand backstabbing Bilgewater would only work to our Detriment because they can beat our heads in when it comes to the Balance of Power, Tournaments and Featured Matches, so we're a lot less likely to do that than with Ionia.
- This is probably the most important, but if an alliance with Bilgewater works anything like it did for Piltover and Bandle City, both Factions get very powerful picks on the side (Shadow Isles gets champions like Graves, Katarina, and Fizz, while Bilgewater gets champions like Hecarim, Evelynn and Thresh) While Ionia certainly has strong Champions, I would go so far as to say Bilgewater's overall roster is superior.
Ok first off, that oppose that apparently "fucked" you guys from having a better record, that was from the 8 hour vote. So how is it that you try to use that as an excuse for when you opposed Bilge, but we're getting smack from you because of that 8 hour vote. You do understand that the majority of Ionia DIDN'T want to oppose SI in any way? Na, I'm pretty sure you didn't know that, because you're too blind by the grudge. Majority of the active Ionians never even got to vote, and that it was the silent minority that was accounted in that 8 hour vote. So yea, please don't try to put that on us.
Also, you need to remember that even though Factions is a custom, alternative game mode for LoL players, it's STILL A COMPETITION. So why would it be smart to ally yourself with the first place faction, when we're all attempting to overthrow them and their perfect record? You allying yourself with Bilge kinda shows that you just give up for this arc, and are handing them the resources to basically let them gain a bigger lead, which will lead to a overwhelming victory.
You can't just look at it from the lore standpoint. If we did, then pirates would act more like pirates, not elect a mermaid as their leader. Freljord wouldn't have the three sisters in one group, due to the conflict of their goals. You have to look at it from a competition point of view also.
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Kaynunot
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Nov 21 2014, 01:57 PM
Post #57
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
- Posts:
- 3,688
- Group:
- Noxus Summoner
- Member
- #71
- Joined:
- Nov 20, 2014
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- Revoluxionist
- Nov 21 2014, 01:42 PM
- Kuronan
- Nov 21 2014, 01:31 PM
Well, look at it like this: You have Varus, and you have Kennen... You have a Champion that can fit in nearly any meta aside from CC, and you have good disengage and poke. Shadow Isles has no ADC (aside from Kalista who we don't have yet, and Urgot who, let's be honest, is more of an AD Caster designed around Lane Bullying than an actual Carry) so we rely heavily on CC-Heavy Teamfights. Guess which Champions are freaking awesome at that? Sion and Amumu. Guess how many petitions we failed the get them... Two. Guess how many we failed because we were opposed? One. And who voted against us that one? Ionia. We could potentially be in an even stronger spot than we are right now on the Balance of Power, but we aren't, Our Teamfights aren't as powerful as, say, Bilgewater or Frejlord because we don't have the CC to lock down our enemies and Sion or Amumu would have fixed that problem (though if we get Kalista this whole problem is moot because we'll have an ADC that's extremely Meta, if not Overpowered right now) Plus (to my extremely limited knowledge) most recorded victories we have, especially in weekend featured matches, that the Shadow Isles have won are against Ionia. An Alliance isn't very smart simply for the fact we'd either need to fight each other to keep our score relative because our history against Bilgewater and Frejlord has been very lackluster, and competing more for 'Who's on Third' than 'How can we bring someone lower than us?' An Alliance with Bilgewater just make a lot more sense practically, they already have a commanding lead and all they need is a Military, Shadow Isles is doing solid in Lore Events (aside from the hiccup in Dauyux) and has the strongest military in the entire arc. An alliance with the one faction we are strong AGAINST will only serve as a Detriment to us in the future. Bilgewater is nearly undefeated and the people we struggle most against, so allying with them will
- Serve us in that we can focus less on getting owned by Bilgewater and more on owning everyone else.
- Cement our power in the Lore by allying with a faction that covers our weaknesses. This would last a lot longer because both Bilgewater and Shadow Isles understand backstabbing Bilgewater would only work to our Detriment because they can beat our heads in when it comes to the Balance of Power, Tournaments and Featured Matches, so we're a lot less likely to do that than with Ionia.
- This is probably the most important, but if an alliance with Bilgewater works anything like it did for Piltover and Bandle City, both Factions get very powerful picks on the side (Shadow Isles gets champions like Graves, Katarina, and Fizz, while Bilgewater gets champions like Hecarim, Evelynn and Thresh) While Ionia certainly has strong Champions, I would go so far as to say Bilgewater's overall roster is superior.
Ok first off, that oppose that apparently "fucked" you guys from having a better record, that was from the 8 hour vote. So how is it that you try to use that as an excuse for when you opposed Bilge, but we're getting smack from you because of that 8 hour vote. You do understand that the majority of Ionia DIDN'T want to oppose SI in any way? Na, I'm pretty sure you didn't know that, because you're too blind by the grudge. Majority of the active Ionians never even got to vote, and that it was the silent minority that was accounted in that 8 hour vote. So yea, please don't try to put that on us. Also, you need to remember that even though Factions is a custom, alternative game mode for LoL players, it's STILL A COMPETITION. So why would it be smart to ally yourself with the first place faction, when we're all attempting to overthrow them and their perfect record? You allying yourself with Bilge kinda shows that you just give up for this arc, and are handing them the resources to basically let them gain a bigger lead, which will lead to a overwhelming victory. You can't just look at it from the lore standpoint. If we did, then pirates would act more like pirates, not elect a mermaid as their leader. Freljord wouldn't have the three sisters in one group, due to the conflict of their goals. You have to look at it from a competition point of view also. I am looking at it from a Competitive Standpoint, or did you not read the list properly? An Alliance between Bilgewater and the Shadow Isles is extremely profitable for both sides because we cover each other's weaknesses. Bilgewater needs a Military, and that's it. Shadow Isles could use everything else (especially Commerce and Navy) and an alliance could secure both sides potential Champions that can be made to capitalize on specific strategies like Teamfighting (Katarina and Nautilus/Karthus and Fiddlesticks) Picking (Fizz and Hecarim) or Splitpushing (Jax and Mordekaiser)
If I wanted to put my grudge on you, I wouldn't just vote to ally Bilgewater, I'd also advocate Sabotage and Opposing your Petition. I've voted Not to betray you if you ask for help, and to Support your petition regardless of whether an Alliance occurs. I'm angry about the failed petition but I am capable of recognizing I can still be angry and not make evil decisions based purely upon that. But I analyze both factions, and Ionia would be nice, but Bilgewater offers us more.
Edited by Kaynunot, Nov 21 2014, 02:29 PM.
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Zondervain
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Nov 21 2014, 02:52 PM
Post #58
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Invoker
- Posts:
- 232
- Group:
- Summoner
- Member
- #22
- Joined:
- Nov 16, 2014
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- Kuronan
- Nov 21 2014, 01:57 PM
- Revoluxionist
- Nov 21 2014, 01:42 PM
- Kuronan
- Nov 21 2014, 01:31 PM
Well, look at it like this: You have Varus, and you have Kennen... You have a Champion that can fit in nearly any meta aside from CC, and you have good disengage and poke. Shadow Isles has no ADC (aside from Kalista who we don't have yet, and Urgot who, let's be honest, is more of an AD Caster designed around Lane Bullying than an actual Carry) so we rely heavily on CC-Heavy Teamfights. Guess which Champions are freaking awesome at that? Sion and Amumu. Guess how many petitions we failed the get them... Two. Guess how many we failed because we were opposed? One. And who voted against us that one? Ionia. We could potentially be in an even stronger spot than we are right now on the Balance of Power, but we aren't, Our Teamfights aren't as powerful as, say, Bilgewater or Frejlord because we don't have the CC to lock down our enemies and Sion or Amumu would have fixed that problem (though if we get Kalista this whole problem is moot because we'll have an ADC that's extremely Meta, if not Overpowered right now) Plus (to my extremely limited knowledge) most recorded victories we have, especially in weekend featured matches, that the Shadow Isles have won are against Ionia. An Alliance isn't very smart simply for the fact we'd either need to fight each other to keep our score relative because our history against Bilgewater and Frejlord has been very lackluster, and competing more for 'Who's on Third' than 'How can we bring someone lower than us?' An Alliance with Bilgewater just make a lot more sense practically, they already have a commanding lead and all they need is a Military, Shadow Isles is doing solid in Lore Events (aside from the hiccup in Dauyux) and has the strongest military in the entire arc. An alliance with the one faction we are strong AGAINST will only serve as a Detriment to us in the future. Bilgewater is nearly undefeated and the people we struggle most against, so allying with them will
- Serve us in that we can focus less on getting owned by Bilgewater and more on owning everyone else.
- Cement our power in the Lore by allying with a faction that covers our weaknesses. This would last a lot longer because both Bilgewater and Shadow Isles understand backstabbing Bilgewater would only work to our Detriment because they can beat our heads in when it comes to the Balance of Power, Tournaments and Featured Matches, so we're a lot less likely to do that than with Ionia.
- This is probably the most important, but if an alliance with Bilgewater works anything like it did for Piltover and Bandle City, both Factions get very powerful picks on the side (Shadow Isles gets champions like Graves, Katarina, and Fizz, while Bilgewater gets champions like Hecarim, Evelynn and Thresh) While Ionia certainly has strong Champions, I would go so far as to say Bilgewater's overall roster is superior.
Ok first off, that oppose that apparently "fucked" you guys from having a better record, that was from the 8 hour vote. So how is it that you try to use that as an excuse for when you opposed Bilge, but we're getting smack from you because of that 8 hour vote. You do understand that the majority of Ionia DIDN'T want to oppose SI in any way? Na, I'm pretty sure you didn't know that, because you're too blind by the grudge. Majority of the active Ionians never even got to vote, and that it was the silent minority that was accounted in that 8 hour vote. So yea, please don't try to put that on us. Also, you need to remember that even though Factions is a custom, alternative game mode for LoL players, it's STILL A COMPETITION. So why would it be smart to ally yourself with the first place faction, when we're all attempting to overthrow them and their perfect record? You allying yourself with Bilge kinda shows that you just give up for this arc, and are handing them the resources to basically let them gain a bigger lead, which will lead to a overwhelming victory. You can't just look at it from the lore standpoint. If we did, then pirates would act more like pirates, not elect a mermaid as their leader. Freljord wouldn't have the three sisters in one group, due to the conflict of their goals. You have to look at it from a competition point of view also.
I am looking at it from a Competitive Standpoint, or did you not read the list properly? An Alliance between Bilgewater and the Shadow Isles is extremely profitable for both sides because we cover each other's weaknesses. Bilgewater needs a Military, and that's it. Shadow Isles could use everything else (especially Commerce and Navy) and an alliance could secure both sides potential Champions that can be made to capitalize on specific strategies like Teamfighting (Katarina and Nautilus/Karthus and Fiddlesticks) Picking (Fizz and Hecarim) or Splitpushing (Jax and Mordekaiser) If I wanted to put my grudge on you, I wouldn't just vote to ally Bilgewater, I'd also advocate Sabotage and Opposing your Petition. I've voted Not to betray you if you ask for help, and to Support your petition regardless of whether an Alliance occurs. I'm angry about the failed petition but I am capable of recognizing I can still be angry and not make evil decisions based purely upon that. But I analyze both factions, and Ionia would be nice, but Bilgewater offers us more. You guys both know that when we ally with someone, we still face off against them in the tournaments and pick up matches, we just help each other in lore? That's the main reason (only reason) I'm good with Ionia. They have favor to help us with and together we can oppose Bilgewater until they've lost all of their favor.
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Tofuology
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Nov 21 2014, 03:29 PM
Post #59
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Nya Nya~
- Posts:
- 1,630
- Group:
- Staff
- Member
- #13
- Joined:
- Nov 15, 2014
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Well, looks like the Ionia-SI thing ain't happening anyways, so oh well.
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ChroniclerC
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Nov 21 2014, 11:12 PM
Post #60
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Submit to the Void
- Posts:
- 436
- Group:
- Summoner
- Member
- #15
- Joined:
- Nov 15, 2014
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See? SEE!? Ionia is trying to mend fences. Can we stop with the hate now?
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