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Krocylea Poll; Vote!
Topic Started: Dec 3 2014, 01:45 AM (3,094 Views)
Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
StormRevolver
Dec 4 2014, 04:02 PM
But we should not betray them if we work together. If i were CCT i would take Kalista away from our roster and give it to the one we betrayed if we do it :)
I don't know if you were around for the Hextech Revolution, but Malzahar was taken from Zaun at the end of the arc, and absolutely no one was happy with it. Even after, we were extremely salty that Cupcake didn't allow us to use him again after the end of the arc during the Tournament. No, never remove a Champion from a Roster. That's literally the cruelest thing you can do to any Faction, no matter how far ahead they are. Don't forget Kalista is our only viable ADC as well. Quite frankly, I want to slap you for even suggesting this, even if it was a joke.

That is not funny. It happened once, and it was an absolute atrocity. The only time Champions should be removed from the roster is when an arc is officially ended and the Intermission has begun, where it impacts no one. To remove a Champion for any reason before that point is either Punishing Success or kicking The Loser in the nutsack. This is especially the case for Kalista because we so desperately need her. Lore goes out the window to keep the Meta Comp.
Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 4 2014, 04:40 PM.
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drmigit2
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Magus
CupcakeTrap
Dec 4 2014, 04:05 PM
Here's an updated summary of how I read the current results.

1. The Shadow Isles will attack the kingdom on the Freljord's side of the island.
2. If the Freljord attacks SI's kingdom, it's not entirely clear if SI will join Freljord in the attack or defend it. SI seems okay with either, but more strongly prefers to defend the kingdom.
3. SI would be fine with cooperating with the Freljord to secure the nexus. If the Freljord doesn't want to share, SI will fight.
One thing that doesn't seem clear to me is if the options are mutually exclusive. Can we invade and destroy the enemy kingdom AND secure their nexus?
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StormRevolver
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Magus
Kuronan
Dec 4 2014, 04:37 PM
StormRevolver
Dec 4 2014, 04:02 PM
But we should not betray them if we work together. If i were CCT i would take Kalista away from our roster and give it to the one we betrayed if we do it :)
I don't know if you were around for the Hextech Revolution, but Malzahar was taken from Zaun at the end of the arc, and absolutely no one was happy with it. Even after, we were extremely salty that Cupcake didn't allow us to use him again after the end of the arc during the Tournament. No, never remove a Champion from a Roster. That's literally the cruelest thing you can do to any Faction, no matter how far ahead they are. Don't forget Kalista is our only viable ADC as well. Quite frankly, I want to slap you for even suggesting this, even if it was a joke.

That is not funny. It happened once, and it was an absolute atrocity. The only time Champions should be removed from the roster is when an arc is officially ended and the Intermission has begun, where it impacts no one. To remove a Champion for any reason before that point is either Punishing Success or kicking The Loser in the nutsack. This is especially the case for Kalista because we so desperately need her. Lore goes out the window to keep the Meta Comp.

no its lore. If you want kalista dont do betrayal stuff :) muhahaha this will be my new weapon in turning SI into a more friendly faction muhahahahahahahaa

a bit more seriously i think it was a given that you guys shouldnt have trusted malzahar. And i think its fine if some champions gets removed if a faction picks a choice that realy goes against that champion, or the lore would otherwise require it. I think it gives a bit more weight to the lore.
Edited by StormRevolver, Dec 4 2014, 05:26 PM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
drmigit2
Dec 4 2014, 04:42 PM
CupcakeTrap
Dec 4 2014, 04:05 PM
Here's an updated summary of how I read the current results.

1. The Shadow Isles will attack the kingdom on the Freljord's side of the island.
2. If the Freljord attacks SI's kingdom, it's not entirely clear if SI will join Freljord in the attack or defend it. SI seems okay with either, but more strongly prefers to defend the kingdom.
3. SI would be fine with cooperating with the Freljord to secure the nexus. If the Freljord doesn't want to share, SI will fight.
One thing that doesn't seem clear to me is if the options are mutually exclusive. Can we invade and destroy the enemy kingdom AND secure their nexus?
there is only 1 nexus
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
StormRevolver
Dec 4 2014, 05:23 PM
no its lore. If you want kalista don't do betrayal stuff :) muhahaha this will be my new weapon in turning SI into a more friendly faction muhahahahahahahaa

a bit more seriously i think it was a given that you guys shouldn't have trusted malzahar. And i think its fine if some champions gets removed if a faction picks a choice that really goes against that champion, or the lore would otherwise require it. I think it gives a bit more weight to the lore.
Kuronan smacks StormRevolver over the head with Mordekaiser's Mace, and then buries him with Yorick's Shovel.

Sorry, this is just getting annoying real fast. Let me get something straight to you: We wanted a Void Expert for Void Energy, which was a dangerous project and we could also use more well-known mid-laners. If you didn't know, OrderlyAnarchist played AD Malzahar like a monster on a warpath. Malzahar was a wise investment, until the end of the arc where Cupcake took him from us. CupcakeTrap justified it either as Malzahar being locked up, being rogue, or 'it being the end of the arc' anyway, but everyone can agree it was absolutely uncalled for.

Lore is a large part of Factions but flat out removing Champions is literally a dick move. It FORCES us to pick anything that is not what they hate. By binding a Champion to any option you literally lock us on that path to keep the Champion. It's different from choosing a Champion before you never got them because, in the case of something like Riven V Singed, you are giving up one for another. They both fill in as top laners. if you make someone choose between two Champions because you can choose to keep one. In the case of Champions being added to potential pick-up pools in events, we are given legitimate options that compensate us for not picking the Champion.

You would be Constricting Choice and Punishing Options. Losing Favor even back when Champions needed to be petitioned was not as bad as what you suggest. If I gave you the choice of being shot in the head or shot in the heart, that's not a great choice is it? This is what I feel you would be doing by having any option REMOVE from our roster.
Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 4 2014, 05:40 PM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
yea so if you start a slave pit in demacia xinzhao should just stay there and watch it? i think most of factions is for the lore. And picking up champions that have history like malzahar should be a risky choice. The dick move in that was that u guys wasnt realy given a warning before picking him up. and then he was taken away without a warning again, but i think it was fine when we were told that we would lose yorick if we go void spire. And just because it was a wise investment, it doesnt mean he works for zaun, but you guys enjoyed him too much without a tought what it means to have malzahar on your side. You guys acted that you work against the void, and for making things better, when you had the freaking prophet of the void on your team...

sidenote: why did everyone want to send morde when we were plenty strong enough, and we need the extra research for the nexus? its the same thing again and again. Going for the overkill and then sacraficing another objective.
Edited by StormRevolver, Dec 4 2014, 05:51 PM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
stupid buttons :(
Edited by StormRevolver, Dec 4 2014, 05:51 PM.
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
StormRevolver
Dec 4 2014, 05:46 PM
yea so if you start a slave pit in demacia xinzhao should just stay there and watch it? i think most of factions is for the lore. And picking up champions that have history like malzahar should be a risky choice. The dick move in that was that u guys wasnt realy given a warning before picking him up. and then he was taken away without a warning again, but i think it was fine when we were told that we would lose yorick if we go void spire. And just because it was a wise investment, it doesnt mean he works for zaun, but you guys enjoyed him too much without a tought what it means to have malzahar on your side. You guys acted that you work against the void, and for making things better, when you had the freaking prophet of the void on your team...

sidenote: why did everyone want to send morde when we were plenty strong enough, and we need the extra research for the nexus? its the same thing again and again. Going for the overkill and then sacrificing another objective.
You can literally justify that about any Non-Demacian Champion Revolver, it's called having an Opinion. And opinions change to the situation as Summoners see fit. We shouldn't be punished for being flexible. We are in a crappy place for this arc, playing nice will get us absolutely nothing. Champions should not punish us if we need to change strategies or do something they don't like. They have every right to gripe at us and every right to laugh at us if our choice blows up in our face. They do not have the right to force us to do anything (canonically we have the right to force them to do what we want, part of how this whole thing works)

I think the Shadow Isles' and Frejlord will be jointly working together on the Nexus, not exactly us alone (one of the perks of working together) We also want to send Mordekaiser to see this Gauntlet in action. We sacrificed Syndra as a potential pick-up to get it, you can bet your ass we want to see it in effect.

To losing Yorick if we go Void Spire, that's again a choice with benefits to outweigh the consequences. So what if we lost Yorick? We'd get All Five Void Champions and likely also get Void Units. Making us lose Kalista for backstabbing the Frejlord does not give us anything of reasonable value in turn, and is therefore Punishing Choice. What's worse than Not having options, is having options so horrible you are forced to pick one (see the beginning of the arc, when our research was so horrible we were forced to pick Void Spire.)
Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 4 2014, 06:10 PM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
problem is about kalista its not just opinion, its her being. She cant change that nor can we. if she wouldnt hunt betrayers anymore, she wouldnt be kalista :) and the choice could be tuned so it wont be a punishing choice. Who knows maybe someone would be deligthed that they were betrayed, and then we could get another adc :)
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Ares the Proud
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Recruiter and Wargod
Stormy Stormy Stormy. I can call you stormy right? let me explain. From a lore perspective, its less us betraying them than jsut deciding we don't want to work with them, we never made an official agreement, its just a battle if we do. The league told us to work together, doesn't mean we HAVE to. As is, it doesn't matter because Frel is staying out of our way and sharing stuff with us. Kalista wouldn't leave even if we did something like that, she's working with Hecarim and Morde who both apparently betrayed someone. She doesn't care, she's more an primal force of vengeance, working with us.

Also, if you try to get Kalista kicked off our roster, Yorick will bury you.
Edited by Ares the Proud, Dec 4 2014, 06:18 PM.
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
StormRevolver
Dec 4 2014, 06:14 PM
problem is about kalista its not just opinion, its her being. She cant change that nor can we. if she wouldnt hunt betrayers anymore, she wouldnt be kalista :) and the choice could be tuned so it wont be a punishing choice. Who knows maybe someone would be deligthed that they were betrayed, and then we could get another adc :)
Like I said, Summoners have the power to Force Champions to do what we will. Nocturne and Brand are perfect examples of this. A Champion should never be removed from a roster for any reason, I don't care about Lore, I've experienced it first hand and I can tell you this is not something that Lore can take precedence over. And let me re-iterate that: To replace Kalista, Who is literally A-Tier ADC right now, we'd need Kog'Maw, who is not an A-Tier Marksman, and either a 20 boost to any of our stats or another Void Champion as well. We would need to get any of these Champions the INSTANT Kalista left. That's what it would take to 'tune' the choice to compare. The only thing that can compare as a reward to flat out Losing a Champion is getting one Or More to take their place.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
Ares the Proud
Dec 4 2014, 06:18 PM
Stormy Stormy Stormy. I can call you stormy right? let me explain. From a lore perspective, its less us betraying them than jsut deciding we don't want to work with them, we never made an official agreement, its just a battle if we do. The league told us to work together, doesn't mean we HAVE to. As is, it doesn't matter because Frel is staying out of our way and sharing stuff with us. Kalista wouldn't leave even if we did something like that, she's working with Hecarim and Morde who both apparently betrayed someone. She doesn't care, she's more an primal force of vengeance, working with us.

Also, if you try to get Kalista kicked off our roster, Yorick will bury you.
if we didnt work with them from the start then sure. But if we cooperated on the nexus, and then backstab them, i think thats pretty much betrayal. And about how Kalista and Hecarim works together? i think they shouldnt be in the same match, just as graves and tf shouldnt, but the staff tought these kind of extra rules couldnt be properly handled.

And im not trying to kick kalista out im trying to reign the summoners in muhahahahaha :)
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StormRevolver
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Magus
Kuronan
Dec 4 2014, 06:19 PM
A Champion should never be removed from a roster for any reason, I don't care about Lore, I've experienced it first hand and I can tell you this is not something that Lore can take precedence over
Then u guys shouldnt have been able to recruit him in the first place. He is the freaking prophet of the void, and you wanted him to be all buddy buddy with zaun who as you said was working against the void?
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
StormRevolver
Dec 4 2014, 06:28 PM
Kuronan
Dec 4 2014, 06:19 PM
A Champion should never be removed from a roster for any reason, I don't care about Lore, I've experienced it first hand and I can tell you this is not something that Lore can take precedence over
Then u guys shouldnt have been able to recruit him in the first place. He is the freaking prophet of the void, and you wanted him to be all buddy buddy with zaun who as you said was working against the void?
Literally the entire idea of the arc was that we were researching stuff the Void made. So I think it'd be reasonable for Zaun, the one City-State that says 'We don't care about ethics, only the pursuit of Science and Capitalism' to recruit the guy who would probably know something about it. And Zaun, until the end, was not working against the Void, we were working to research stuff, which was not specifically against the Void Agenda (If we wanted to oppose the Void we would have built the Chaos Capacitor, not the Infinity Engine)

I don't care, a Champion shouldn't be removed from the roster unless they aren't involved in an active arc, no exceptions. And I will help bury you if you try to get anyone removed from our roster.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
Kuronan
Dec 4 2014, 06:34 PM
StormRevolver
Dec 4 2014, 06:28 PM
Kuronan
Dec 4 2014, 06:19 PM
A Champion should never be removed from a roster for any reason, I don't care about Lore, I've experienced it first hand and I can tell you this is not something that Lore can take precedence over
Then u guys shouldnt have been able to recruit him in the first place. He is the freaking prophet of the void, and you wanted him to be all buddy buddy with zaun who as you said was working against the void?
Literally the entire idea of the arc was that we were researching stuff the Void made. So I think it'd be reasonable for Zaun, the one City-State that says 'We don't care about ethics, only the pursuit of Science and Capitalism' to recruit the guy who would probably know something about it. And Zaun, until the end, was not working against the Void, we were working to research stuff, which was not specifically against the Void Agenda (If we wanted to oppose the Void we would have built the Chaos Capacitor, not the Infinity Engine)

I don't care, a Champion shouldn't be removed from the roster unless they aren't involved in an active arc, no exceptions. And I will help bury you if you try to get anyone removed from our roster.
wow such a big nerve i touched O.O Its time to go to sleep i guess, but as a last note, its funny how in other posts where you talk about how we blindside zauns good side you forget that you literaly worked together with the void, and always write that zaun was researching the void to halt the next apocalypse or something.
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
StormRevolver
Dec 4 2014, 06:39 PM
wow such a big nerve i touched O.O Its time to go to sleep i guess, but as a last note, its funny how in other posts where you talk about how we blindside zauns good side you forget that you literally worked together with the void, and always write that zaun was researching the void to halt the next apocalypse or something.
Now you are twisting my words. We helped Bandle City fend off the Undead Army that they called on themselves, that was their problem, and we didn't slack off when we did it either. We sent the Brunt of our Forces, 80% of the HexKorps went to help Bandle City. Singed was in the matches of Bandle City verses the Undead. We also took our anti-spying and anti-sabotage treaties seriously, unlike Bandle City who blew up our labs for saving their asses from their own mistakes.

We did work with Malzahar and he was an invaluable element on the Fields in the hands of OrderlyAnarchist but we, the Summoners, never intended to open a Void Rift, and yet everyone acts like we voted to do it. We didn't research ways to prevent the Voidpocalypse, but we sure as hell didn't vote to start it.
Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 4 2014, 07:01 PM.
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bakaultima
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Invoker
hey kuronan how did you get a pic i tried but it didn't work
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Ragingfangs
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Initiate
Yep frel ffed up they decided to fight dirty to and then failed AND NOW WE GOTA VOIDPOCALYPSE
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PONCHOGRANDE
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Meanwhile in Top Lane...
I don't want to say I told you so about us needing Aatrox and a military, StormRevolver.

But I told you so :P
Edited by PONCHOGRANDE, Dec 5 2014, 12:20 AM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
whats with this told u so. i dont see any results yet anywhere

ah its up now. Well considering this, we can go act like heroes and then make our army into a mass that cannot be stopped by the noxian and demacian army combined. Who wants some undead voidlings?
Edited by StormRevolver, Dec 5 2014, 01:30 AM.
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