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Krocylea Part II
Topic Started: Dec 5 2014, 12:49 AM (1,820 Views)
XalkXolc
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Lightning Ball goes Boom
Conquer, don't massacre. I like that plan. SI earned the right to do what they like, and we won't interfere if they try to conquer. We're not monsters though, so we also won't help if they decide to go full Aatrox on the Nyrothians.
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Wizard996
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Random Silver Scrub
As XalkXolc says, vote to support the conquering. It doesn't matter if we support the slaughter or not, but I think we could at least be bystanders, and vote not to intervene.
For conquer, if you REALLY don't want to intervene, at least vote to support. The Isles has no choice as far as I'm aware on just leaving them alone at this point; they're set on conquer or slaughter.

Also, the Isles wanted to invade the other kingdom, but was completely willing to do the nexus. However, Freljord stubbornly refused to let the Isles have the chance at a takeover, and that is how this began. The Isles may have sinned greatly in using Rune War magic, but can we really hold a single choice against them, when they have overall been performing miserably and needed a win somewhere to bolster their chances in this arc?
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TerraBooma
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Sorcerer
in other words guys, vote not to intervene either way. They're going to try and do the Conquer route. (Or at least switch)



If Doctor can't sway enough votes, we need to turn a blind eye to the massacre to keep the alliance.



Besides. An Alliance with SI is a faction that is loyal to US and not Noxus.
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OrderlyAnarchist
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Tidecallercaller
Wizard996
Dec 5 2014, 03:51 PM
OrderlyAnarchist
Dec 5 2014, 03:14 PM
I've said this once already, but I'll say it hear to ensure it reaches as many ears as possible. We must not commit ourselves to this conflict.

It is my solemn belief that commiting Bilgewater's military to such a large scale conflict would be a tremendous tactical error, and set us back significantly in achieving our goals elsewhere in Nyroth. We have no way of knowing the power of the voidling hordes, and putting troops on the island could be a death sentence. I, for one, have no desire to see the blood of our people spilled in a disaster created by two bloodthirsty foreigners and the malevolent machinations of the Freljord! This isn't hunting dinosaurs. This is full scale war, against an enemy we still cannot fully comprehend. Let they on the island handle the situation as they see fit. We will anchor our ships in the harbour and support any possible evacuation efforts, but we shouldn't dare to take part in such a dangerous conflict when the invasion is already confined by the boundaries of the island.

I beseech any summoner who truly has the best interests of Bilgewater at heart to stand out of the way of these malefic forces. This is not Shurima; this is not our conflict. We should not involve ourselves, in any way.
This was also posted on the thread in General Discussion, and has been refuted by me there. To summarize:
SI strength is 180, so is Voids. We do NOT have troops on ground other than Renek I believe, but we DO have a Navy that can bombard rather well.
Actually, SI strength is 150. See Cupcake's post.
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Wizard996
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TerraBooma
Dec 5 2014, 04:22 PM
in other words guys, vote not to intervene either way. They're going to try and do the Conquer route. (Or at least switch)



If Doctor can't sway enough votes, we need to turn a blind eye to the massacre to keep the alliance.



Besides. An Alliance with SI is a faction that is loyal to US and not Noxus.
In basic, some Isles summoners and a few Bilgians (including me and Terra) had an open conversation over this decision, but a few minutes ago. As of right now, they are trying to sway towards the conquer route over the slaughter one. As I mentioned earlier, I do not believe they have a third option.

Drmigit is the one trying to persuade his fellows atm. However, if he is unsuccessful and not enough change their votes, it may be necessary to vote in favor of NOT intervening in case of slaughter. The good news is, the Isles are at least aware that we are supporting them in general of this action, so we needn't intervene simply to show we are not in support of this; they know now.

As Terra stated, the SI are our best allies this arc. Freljord's leader Ashe has aligned herself with Demacia, and many of us do NOT like the Demacians. Ionia also looks upon them favorably, as they aided during the Noxian expulsion in Shon-Xan. Although I support Noxus, the Isles gives us an ally that isn't explicitly tying ourselves to Noxus, and we should do our best to keep good relations with them.
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Wizard996
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Random Silver Scrub
One more thing: burning our bridge to the Isles will give us no allies other than Noxus and Zaun. While I look favorably towards these 2, why not keep at least one ally that isn't trying to control us (coughNoxuscough), and is perfectly willing to help us slaughter the dragon on Mag Mell?
Do we REALLY want all 3 factions in this arc against us? That seems like a really bad idea...
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XalkXolc
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Lightning Ball goes Boom
We have accept some hard truths here, guys. We can't do a 180 on our alliances because of Lack of Jurisdiction. This is the position we're in. We can't afford to screw it up.
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Licantus
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Conjurer
Wizard996
Dec 5 2014, 03:51 PM
OrderlyAnarchist
Dec 5 2014, 03:14 PM
I've said this once already, but I'll say it hear to ensure it reaches as many ears as possible. We must not commit ourselves to this conflict.

It is my solemn belief that commiting Bilgewater's military to such a large scale conflict would be a tremendous tactical error, and set us back significantly in achieving our goals elsewhere in Nyroth. We have no way of knowing the power of the voidling hordes, and putting troops on the island could be a death sentence. I, for one, have no desire to see the blood of our people spilled in a disaster created by two bloodthirsty foreigners and the malevolent machinations of the Freljord! This isn't hunting dinosaurs. This is full scale war, against an enemy we still cannot fully comprehend. Let they on the island handle the situation as they see fit. We will anchor our ships in the harbour and support any possible evacuation efforts, but we shouldn't dare to take part in such a dangerous conflict when the invasion is already confined by the boundaries of the island.

I beseech any summoner who truly has the best interests of Bilgewater at heart to stand out of the way of these malefic forces. This is not Shurima; this is not our conflict. We should not involve ourselves, in any way.
This was also posted on the thread in General Discussion, and has been refuted by me there. To summarize:
SI strength is 180, so is Voids. We do NOT have troops on ground other than Renek I believe, but we DO have a Navy that can bombard rather well.
Currently we are going to commit our troops, considering the result of "Stay and fight?" is "Yes". Maybe the poll isn't clear about this?
Edited by Licantus, Dec 5 2014, 08:37 PM.
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Wizard996
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I just wish to inform everyone of the current situation on the Isles part:

Isles have the choice of slaughtering or conquering the Krocyleans. Currently, the vote is 10-6 in favor of slaughter, with 1 doing what Aatrox wants, and 4 votes will be cast depending on what BigMike does (including his own).

They Isles are going to be backstabbing the Freljord afterwards. We don't care; they are allied with Demacia, and are our main rivals as of this moment.
There is 85% opposed to backstabbing us, which is good. Of course, this could all change drastically if Mike wants to betray us, but I don't think he would.

Edit: I have heard that no one has voted to betray Bilge from Mike, and that he has no intention of doing so. We are in the clear, so DONT BOMBARD THEM IF THEY PICK SLAUGHTER. DON'T TURN ON OUR ONLY ALLY HERE.
Edited by Wizard996, Dec 5 2014, 09:41 PM.
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Wizard996
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Fellow Bilgians: I am disappoint. Why on earth are you not communicating your choice? I've campaigned heavily for my belief, but if you're going to vote, would you mind at least explaining why you vote that way? The Isles is our only ally that doesn't stick us with Noxus, and is our best choice of trying to show we aren't a Noxian puppet. The Isles has stated they won't attack us explicitly, and has no cause to give us harm.
Listen, I understand that we want to chastise them a bit for picking Aatrox, and several of you are panicky over re-creating Lack of Jurisdiction. Trust me, the Isles isn't going to be torturing people for information and publicly humiliating both the League and another nation. They are simply going to kill those it might never have convinced to join them, in order to stick to the safety of undead allies. If we bombard them like we are VERY CLOSE TO, we risk having Aatrox and the Isles against us, for stupid/unexplained reasons. We nuked the bridge with Ionia and burned the one to Freljord, must we spit on everyone that isn't us? I really want to hear the decision making; this isn't a fire-and-forget vote, this can be SUPER important, be sure to communicate your thoughts with us.

Edit: Great, so we ARE BOMBARDING THE SHADOW ISLES. This is why discussing things is nice. Congratulations, now go fight them. We have brought the most powerful military in Nyroth's attention on us. Did people not understand how they poll worked or something, or was the influx of new people just 'ew, Shadow Isles, kill them'?
Edited by Wizard996, Dec 5 2014, 11:14 PM.
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XalkXolc
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Lightning Ball goes Boom
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PEOPLE, ARE YOU BLIND, DEAF, OR BOTH?!? PLEASE HAVE SOME CONSIDERATION BEFORE YOU DESTROY OUR ENTIRE POSITION. If it's not clear already, I am Very Angry. I, Wiz, Terra and others have been trying to explain the issue, and have put a lot of effort into trying to steer us in a direction that isn't completely selfishness-destructive. I know a lot of people won't read this, but I really hope that some do. This was our single biggest opportunity to blow it, and we did. Now everyone will hate us. *sigh* Time to call in the political clean-up crew...

Edit: it seems I misunderstood the situation: we have not been locked in yet, and the numbers are kind of wonky. Regardless, we'll see what happens, and deal with the situation accordingly.


Edit #2: Hindsight is 20/20, and whoo, boy, was I salty. Problem: bad moods. Solution: Calm thyself, Summoner!
Edited by XalkXolc, Dec 7 2014, 10:02 PM.
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Wizard996
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Random Silver Scrub
Edit: One was a duplicate. There is a chance!
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Licantus
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Conjurer
If you you stay calm and say things clearly, maybe others can understand better.

Currently we are 13-13 to bombard SI only if they decide to massacre the inhabitants. Are they going this route?
Edited by Licantus, Dec 5 2014, 11:50 PM.
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Wizard996
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Random Silver Scrub
I can almost guarantee it's too late for them to change to conquer. That's why I've been campaigning so hard; because I knew that there wasn't much chance to sway them down a notch, so I might as well get some of Bilge to accept that.
ChroniclerC put his argument particularly well in the other board.
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Licantus
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Conjurer
Now we are 16-13, so SI is safe for now, but we have to be careful with them given the army they have.
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Vespertinity
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Conjurer
Wizard996
Dec 5 2014, 10:26 PM
If we bombard them like we are VERY CLOSE TO, we risk having Aatrox and the Isles against us, for stupid/unexplained reasons. We nuked the bridge with Ionia and burned the one to Freljord, must we spit on everyone that isn't us? I really want to hear the decision making; this isn't a fire-and-forget vote, this can be SUPER important, be sure to communicate your thoughts with us.

Edit: Great, so we ARE BOMBARDING THE SHADOW ISLES. This is why discussing things is nice. Congratulations, now go fight them. We have brought the most powerful military in Nyroth's attention on us. Did people not understand how they poll worked or something, or was the influx of new people just 'ew, Shadow Isles, kill them'?
We're not bombarding the Shadow Isles. I think you're the one who's reading the poll results wrong.
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Jpdaniel
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We've GOT to have GOLD
Wizard996
Dec 5 2014, 10:26 PM
Fellow Bilgians: I am disappoint. Why on earth are you not communicating your choice? I've campaigned heavily for my belief, but if you're going to vote, would you mind at least explaining why you vote that way? The Isles is our only ally that doesn't stick us with Noxus, and is our best choice of trying to show we aren't a Noxian puppet. The Isles has stated they won't attack us explicitly, and has no cause to give us harm.
Listen, I understand that we want to chastise them a bit for picking Aatrox, and several of you are panicky over re-creating Lack of Jurisdiction. Trust me, the Isles isn't going to be torturing people for information and publicly humiliating both the League and another nation. They are simply going to kill those it might never have convinced to join them, in order to stick to the safety of undead allies. If we bombard them like we are VERY CLOSE TO, we risk having Aatrox and the Isles against us, for stupid/unexplained reasons. We nuked the bridge with Ionia and burned the one to Freljord, must we spit on everyone that isn't us? I really want to hear the decision making; this isn't a fire-and-forget vote, this can be SUPER important, be sure to communicate your thoughts with us.

Edit: Great, so we ARE BOMBARDING THE SHADOW ISLES. This is why discussing things is nice. Congratulations, now go fight them. We have brought the most powerful military in Nyroth's attention on us. Did people not understand how they poll worked or something, or was the influx of new people just 'ew, Shadow Isles, kill them'?
Perhaps I should have made my position a little more clear. I have never wanted to have anything to do with the shadow isles. My avatar might as well be a confederate flag with thresh painted over it. SI never has had anything to offer us besides... not being another enemy. And I was fine with that. Plug my ears, vote to not hurt them, and watch as we helped them because they're last and the only ones friendly with us. For some unholy reason we made enemies with Frel because "They're acting tsundere, lets NOT do anything to sway them to our side." We never stood to make friends with Ionia. They from the start planned to form alliances to take us down.

So we were left with the shadow isles. And as I've stated before, I'd rather 1v3 the arc. They offer us nothing. Military support? Fair enough. Petition support? We don't need that. Political support? They're an undead army of evil. They never stood in too good graces. Commercial trade? They aren't doing anythign there. Once this dispute is over, it'll be a lifeless thing hanging to us at BEST if not a barrier against entering other pacts.

But this is better. The Shadow Isles are offering to 1v3 instead. The difference between us is that WE aren't mauling everyone in our path. This is a perfect time to turn and try one last push to get the Freljord or Ionia to temporarily put differences aside. We aren't their first targets surely. And as long as we keep it up on the fields we'll have prime say over what is done here. Although we're going to have to clean up the messes SI has left.

Quote:
 
Trust me, the Isles isn't going to be torturing people for information and publicly humiliating both the League and another nation. They are simply going to kill those it might never have convinced to join them, in order to stick to the safety of undead allies.

"Oh, they won't torture anything, just kill anyone in their path. YEAH. THAT MAKES THEM A WHOLE LOT BETTER. And you know what's better than one evil empire being backed by Bilgewater? TWO! Allying with Noxus (A poll I couldn't participate in and so have thusfar been silent about) was enough of a mistake. Why are we making more under the pretense of "Well, they aren't torturing people so that makes them okay."

This is BEYOND a little battle we'll have to fight. This is BEYOND having Aatrox against us. This is even beyond Bilgewater. This is something we have to do. And if you are so pledged to this city that you'll do anything to not have a single stone scratched by anyone, what'll happen in a month when we all move on to new places? I'm fighting for Bilgewater. But I'm fighting as a summoner. Greedy, standoffish, racist... Is undead a race? whatever. Call me lawful neutral though. And dammit I will fight back against something like this. These people have no league to govern their fights. These people have no say. And I'll be a zombie serving Aatrox before I let fear of a useless alliance and a fight we can win one way or another. The next weeks would be chaotic. We'll have to plan our moves carefully, but it'd be fore the right cause.

I sometimes forget I'm talking to Zaunites here. I apologize. I don't think the word "honor" is in your robot heads.

For the record I said no to fighting them if they were not going to massacre everyone. I don't take a battle like this and the ones to come lightly.

((Okay! Sue me I get too far into character and vote on things without looking at the results first! And maybe I was a bit lazy because of all the other stuff I had to do yesterday so I didn't make a post! I started a war! OOPS! There was an essay I like to call "Fuck the Shadow Isles, I'm a racist young Demacian."

Regardless, I kinda feel if I did post it at an earlier time I'd get people jumping down my throat. Your posts have all been quite hostile to the other side. Sue me, I was like that when GP was being voted, but if thing don't go exactly like some of us plan it it turns into a one-sided argument. In any any case, I was asleep when this whole panic went down.))
Edited by Jpdaniel, Dec 6 2014, 07:14 AM.
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