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| Lore Event V, continued; A little more info | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 20 2014, 03:23 AM (2,471 Views) | |
| CupcakeTrap | Dec 20 2014, 03:23 AM Post #1 |
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Vote here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19slKf8D4EwstPHpjG5mpYtqDej7IkV929iGM-GJ_Qoo/viewform?usp=send_form Results so far: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19slKf8D4EwstPHpjG5mpYtqDej7IkV929iGM-GJ_Qoo/viewanalytics Opening prompt: (these Strength numbers are actually somewhat off) Bilgewater's fighting Strength is about 71. Your total Strength is about 115. We're leaving Champions out of this: that's what the battle matches are for. (Also, we don't want to muck around with more "which Champions to send?" decisions.) Meanwhile, the Freljord has 32 Strength, and Ionia has 47. If you send two-thirds of your army (77 Strength) after Bilgewater, you'll have vaguely even odds against them. (Remember your massive Aatrox bonus: +20%, and your units keep fighting even when lost, whereas they'll get weaker with each round.) You'd then have 38 Strength to threaten the Freljord with. That's not enough to stop both the Freljord and Ionia if they were to join forces, but you'd inflict serious losses on them. Alternatively, you could cancel the attack on Bilgewater, but then you might end up fighting all three factions in front of Yoroth. You could also instead send your entire army after Bilgewater, letting Freljord move freely into Yoroth and focusing on wrecking Bilgewater. (It's not really clear what that would accomplish.) Edited by CupcakeTrap, Dec 20 2014, 01:35 PM.
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| Skoonie | Dec 20 2014, 06:42 AM Post #2 |
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Initiate
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Death to those scurvy, backstabbing sea dogs! Also, what opportunities will open up if we send Karth and friends to Yoroth? Or will we not know that until they actually get there? |
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| Kaynunot | Dec 20 2014, 07:21 AM Post #3 |
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
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Basically what I gather is we'll be asking Ionia to advocate letting us in on the End-Game Decisions to Frejlord and in exchange be giving them some kind of non-military buff to whatever they are doing, probably a bonus to their Research Roll on the Nexus or something. This is a much less aggressive option and allows us to still get in on end-game if Ionia and Frejlord let us while still giving Bilgewater the middle finger. On another note, sending 2/3 of our armies to Bilgewater, or keeping everyone at Yoroth, is a surefire way to LOSE this arc. All we can do is absolutely CRUSH Bilgewater and hope Ionia and Frejlord let us in, that's the best we can really hope for at this point. Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 20 2014, 07:44 AM.
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| silencermage | Dec 20 2014, 08:31 AM Post #4 |
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Research and Devlelopment
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I agree we should send the entire army we cant go haft way with bilgewater it's all or nothing. You have to consider the fact that the featured matches will go in bilgewaters favor so we need all the troops we can muster. |
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| PONCHOGRANDE | Dec 20 2014, 11:43 AM Post #5 |
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Meanwhile in Top Lane...
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We aren't going to win a 1v3 against everyone, but what we can do is get revenge on Bilgewater for Krocylea. Screw it, send everything. |
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| drmigit2 | Dec 20 2014, 11:59 AM Post #6 |
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Magus
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We warned them. "Give us Korcyla and defend us against sanctions, or else." They picked or else. They will regret picking or else. |
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| StormRevolver | Dec 20 2014, 12:12 PM Post #7 |
Magus
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we go full bilgewater and then we should march into stormhaven and start dictating from there. i dont realy see more good options, if we cant march on yoroth after we defeat bilge. (and we should see how much we got left after bilge fighting.) |
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| Kaynunot | Dec 20 2014, 02:12 PM Post #8 |
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
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I see one comment asking we switch to Compromise if we fail at killing off Bilgewater so I think I should clarify how this works (CupcakeTrap can correct me if I'm wrong) Sending an Envoy of Karthus and a few Necromancers to Yoroth does not affect our decision to attack Bilgewater. It would compromise having our army blockade Yoroth, but attacking Bilgewater while asking for the Compromise goes hand-in-hand since I don't think this is specifically sending our military with them. Now if we were blockading Yoroth this would definitely be working against that, but Karthus would (at least theoretically) be approaching Ionia and Frejlord after or during the assault on Bilgewater. Unless CupcakeTrap says otherwise I am assuming these options will go hand-in-hand. Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 20 2014, 02:13 PM.
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| drmigit2 | Dec 20 2014, 11:10 PM Post #9 |
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Magus
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Would someone like to explain to me how our strength was only at 64 when the battle happened? |
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| Kaynunot | Dec 20 2014, 11:49 PM Post #10 |
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
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A) I think this question should be asked of CupcakeTrap or Naggarok and B) I never saw the results, link please? In all seriousness we weren't even allowed to send our Whole Army, it's hardly fair we were further hampered. |
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| CupcakeTrap | Dec 21 2014, 12:02 AM Post #11 |
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Per the vote, SI sent its entire army (96 Strength) against Stormhaven. |
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| drmigit2 | Dec 21 2014, 12:40 AM Post #12 |
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Magus
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Okay now I am confused. How was our army at 96 strength? Last I heard, we had gotten 60 in reinforcements from our home base, 40 from industry on Korcylea, and then a whole lot more from Neritum and Daeyux. If we had known that after ALL of that our strength was only 96 we never would have attacked Bilgewater in the first place. I am pretty sure most of us were under the impression that our army was closer to 150 in strength, not counting the Aatrox bonus. The basic idea behind the attack was that even if Bilgewater snagged the 50% bonus from the featured matches, we would still come out on top because of our army combined with Aatrox. Not only that, but we also never said anything about attacking Stormhaven of all places. This was a battle we had almost 0 shot of coming victorious out of. I have no idea why we were given what was basically a suicide button and told it would solve all of our problems and put us in a favorable position. And that isn't even considering the fact that we were encouraged to split up our forces! Had we done that, we might as well have just thrown our armies into the sea and saved ourselves the embarrassment. I don't know what can be done to fix this, but I feel as if a re-do with the known issues might be in order. Because we were given information that was VASTLY different from what ended up being the truth, and this decision essentially cost us everything we had, again. Edited by drmigit2, Dec 21 2014, 12:45 AM.
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| CupcakeTrap | Dec 21 2014, 12:49 AM Post #13 |
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It doesn't really sit right with me either, to be perfectly candid. I feel badly about it, because when I first heard about the discrepancy from Naggarok, he sketched out approximate revised numbers: Bilgewater: 81 Shadow Isles: 102 The Freljord: 18 Ionia: 27 The main change was that SI was losing 40 Strength that hadn't been deducted for something or other. I balked at the idea, and said that no, SI deserved a proper count. So we did the count. It turned out to go very much against SI. I will push back, though, against the idea that I pitched sending everything against Stormhaven as a solution to all of SI's problems. Actually, the poll phrased it as:
Still, I agree that it's a huge problem that the strength numbers turned out to be very, very different from what the lore event had. Again, I had no clue that the numbers were wrong until today. For example, I rolled out Neritum and Daeyux using the "old" numbers. (And no, I'm not going to go back and reroll those with SI's "true" lower strength.) Edited by CupcakeTrap, Dec 21 2014, 12:57 AM.
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| ChroniclerC | Dec 21 2014, 12:56 AM Post #14 |
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Submit to the Void
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I have to say that, although it does make sense, I don't appreciate the last-minute rules change regarding Aatrox vs Navy. We made tactical decisions based on the previous rulings, so it bugs me for you to just change it suddenly. |
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| CupcakeTrap | Dec 21 2014, 01:00 AM Post #15 |
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I've never regretted anything in Factions history so much as this event. |
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| drmigit2 | Dec 21 2014, 01:06 AM Post #16 |
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Magus
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It's not your fault, CCT. It's just a chaotic mess that got a bit rushed is all. Here is my final thought before I log off for the night. With this new information, why not have the SI blockade Yoroth instead? Just call the featured matches as they were for BoP and move on? I doubt any of us would have made the decision made today with the correct info. It's kind of crappy, but it might be less crappy than the current situation. |
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| StormRevolver | Dec 21 2014, 01:11 AM Post #17 |
Magus
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no this is just borderline cheating. You guys just implemented shittons of rule changes after choices with no information, and just before battle to make a onesided stomp against the faction of the world systems creator into a loss. This is exactly like the random voidlings in hextech. There is realy no good reason for those last minute changes other than to keep the bilgewater veterans happy. (and you guys didnt even calculate with the actualy military stat of SI for the cap. our military stat at the time should be atleast 150, and let no room to maybe even point out these kind of errors) And then added even the atrox nerfs just before battle. Yea its pretty much just forming the rules to fit one side.
Edited by StormRevolver, Dec 21 2014, 01:15 AM.
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| drmigit2 | Dec 21 2014, 01:17 AM Post #18 |
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Magus
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Hey now, Naggarok works very hard on this system and I really doubt he would try to skew things one way or another just to give bilgewater a boostie. Accusing the people who run this of "cheating" helps nobody. Can we not be dicks here? |
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| StormRevolver | Dec 21 2014, 01:18 AM Post #19 |
Magus
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and the sad thing is nobody would care, and i will be just the devil's advocate again. |
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| StormRevolver | Dec 21 2014, 01:19 AM Post #20 |
Magus
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i know he works hard, but the rules always change when not his faction is leading. Somehow the zaunite double research is still in place when its broken as hell. I dont think its intentional, but its still happening. Edited by StormRevolver, Dec 21 2014, 01:21 AM.
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