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SI troop recount; Feel free to join in
Topic Started: Dec 21 2014, 11:06 AM (1,609 Views)
CupcakeTrap
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I'm considering a number of options for SI. I have serious reservations about redoing Stormhaven, but before we even get to that question, let's see how much of a difference it would make if we actually tallied up troop gains and losses. We'd assumed that SI had actually failed to reinforce all its troops, and we thought we were giving them a significant buff by saying "let's just assume they managed to refill their capacity", but who knows, that might turn out different.

So, here's the spreadsheet as I work on it. Feel free to join in.

Bone Dragon Balance Sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cAbFa9THYI9t2uU9vfyJdYOqMb9frJ1Ass5SsRKJMAY/edit?usp=sharing

(Mr. Chompers is the Shadow Isles' quartermaster.)

I also remembered that I did write navy vs. navy rules:
Quote:
 
The naval system operates just as the military system does, except that navies are not broken down into individual units. A faction’s entire navy is (in a bit of handwaving) presumed to be present unless otherwise stated. Casualties are inflicted on a point-by-point basis, and are always lost until after the next arc.

The main issue there is that there's no mechanism stated for rolling navy units, but that doesn't sound too crazy to me: maybe just define a few classes of ship and give each a die code.

Anyway, I think we should also consider actually rolling out the naval battle.
Edited by CupcakeTrap, Dec 21 2014, 11:10 AM.
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CupcakeTrap
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Okay, my initial recount indicates a total strength of 123. That is different.

EDIT: 127.
Edited by CupcakeTrap, Dec 21 2014, 03:13 PM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
check my comments plz :)
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CupcakeTrap
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Wait a second, something's not adding up.
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CupcakeTrap
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Naggarok makes a compelling argument for removing the semi-arbitrary "why is SI's strength so low" +15 bonus. (The idea there was to compensate them for a lack of mercenaries, but that's definitely a post-hoc buff.)

I also found an error in the formula (copy-paste problem); the revised count is 143.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
anything on hec+morde?
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
143 is an impressive force from 96, but I would rather go Hero and throw out stupid powerful Military at Yoroth as a gesture of good will to the other factions.
Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 21 2014, 03:58 PM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
well we should have banished atrox for that option i think but i would have supported it
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CupcakeTrap
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Kuronan
Dec 21 2014, 03:55 PM
143 is an impressive force from 96, but I would rather go Hero and throw out stupid powerful Military at Yoroth as a gesture of good will to the other factions.
Well, so this is awkward. We'd settled on the "Aatrox gets eaten by a kraken" resolution, but now we recount and it looks like SI could actually win this. But now some people maybe don't want to burn Stormhaven to the ground.

…does this mean we need another poll?

Also, it's been argued that if raised units don't count toward troop capacity, then mercs shouldn't either. (The rules aren't totally clear: they weren't updated after we abandoned the whole "vanguard" thing from the early phases of the arc, which was meant to gate military initially.) That would give Bilgewater about +20 Strength, I think, if it's able to send all of its mercs to defend Stormhaven.
Edited by CupcakeTrap, Dec 21 2014, 04:09 PM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
dunno i guess its your choice, i would like that political thing going on, like karthus group banishing atrox just before we do the attack and calling it off like, we could have done that. But im not sure the rest of us would go for it.
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CupcakeTrap
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I'm just done with this for a while. I'll come back in an hour or something. That should provide people time to debate and discuss. At that time, maybe we'll do a final poll or something. I don't know.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
CupcakeTrap
Dec 21 2014, 04:08 PM
Kuronan
Dec 21 2014, 03:55 PM
143 is an impressive force from 96, but I would rather go Hero and throw out stupid powerful Military at Yoroth as a gesture of good will to the other factions.
Well, so this is awkward. We'd settled on the "Aatrox gets eaten by a kraken" resolution, but now we recount and it looks like SI could actually win this. But now some people maybe don't want to burn Stormhaven to the ground.

…does this mean we need another poll?

Also, it's been argued that if raised units don't count toward troop capacity, then mercs shouldn't either. (The rules aren't totally clear: they weren't updated after we abandoned the whole "vanguard" thing from the early phases of the arc, which was meant to gate military initially.) That would give Bilgewater about +20 Strength, I think, if it's able to send all of its mercs to defend Stormhaven.
i think it was specificaly stated that mercs count towards the limit, but the real question is wheter you think of the mercs as guys from valoran or guys from nyroth. If they were brought in from valoran, they should count, if they are from nyroth then i guess it would be like the other spec units
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
I still feel like if we got a Poll I'd send the units to Yoroth. Bilgewater has already said they won't attack us, so why should we push them? They aren't a threat, at least a Threat we need to be concerned with. Even if we have a 143-102 advantage it still feels like a waste in resources. It's the End Of The Arc, let's do some good for once! Let's be Karthus-y and not attack Bilgewater. Live and Let Live... We'll make the Bilgewatians suffer in Death. We may not control The Black Mist but we can certainly harvest corpses and souls from it's wake, I think we can make them pay in the Long Run if we want.

If we do still attack Bilgewater though we should not be forced to banish Aatrox because frankly we still need him if we do go through with that. If we go to Yoroth though it's time to kick him out.
Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 21 2014, 04:23 PM.
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Zondervain
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Invoker
And maybe possibly setting the SI towards a sorta-undead civilization like I heard brought up once in our end of arc decisions? I mean, it's not like anyone is going to break the law... Thresh does exist for a reason.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
Factions can support up to half their Commerce stat in mercenary Strength.

i found this on the commerce write up. soo they got a limit but not the nyroth one. so i think they have 80 comm, so its 40 merc, and i think they are over that.
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CupcakeTrap
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StormRevolver
Dec 21 2014, 04:20 PM
Factions can support up to half their Commerce stat in mercenary Strength.

i found this on the commerce write up. soo they got a limit but not the nyroth one. so i think they have 80 comm, so its 40 merc, and i think they are over that.
No, they actually only have 13 merc Strength accounted for in the original total, because that's their "merc capacity" per arc-opening rules.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
well i dont know then. We should realy just go with the karthus faction playes good guys, and everyone is happy route. But where did bilge pull that extra 30 military from?
Edited by StormRevolver, Dec 21 2014, 04:39 PM.
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
So looking at the Battle Of Stormhaven thread, I want to make a condition for the New Poll if we do go through with it: We have a specifically outlined option saying 'If the Frejlordians don't let you into Yoroth, do you still want to assault Stormhaven?' because from the sound of Matsokune, the administrator of Frejlord, it's entirely possible we could get denied access entirely.

Or we may want to create a sort of 'Preferred Priority' thing for the Poll. I'm not a fan of being The Final Boss anymore but I would despise if we were made to sit on our hands and do nothing.
Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 21 2014, 04:52 PM.
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drmigit2
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Magus
Honestly, if we had a re-poll with Bilgewater's true strength known, the SI wouldn't have pushed its luck against them. Bilgewater would be ~40 points higher than we were originally working with, which is a lot. At that point, we might have just hoped they stay neutral at Yoroth and move on from there.


Here is what I think the SI wants to do at this point:

Get into Yoroth by any means necessary. If the Freljord lets Karthus and the necromancers in, then no problem we go for stormhaven with our massive army and we have a big giant battle for the hell of it.

If they don't let Karthus in, then the Freljord can meet Mordekaiser, Aatrox, and Hecarim. We send our full forces in with the basic concept being "We have come to make sure the mission succeeds, and with you at our side nothing can stop us!" If they attack us, then we defend ourselves. Otherwise they can play sidekick to our giant armies.
Edited by drmigit2, Dec 21 2014, 04:53 PM.
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StormRevolver
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Magus
i am tired, im going to sleep. if any quick poll will be up, im with karthus and yorick.
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