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| So the results are in | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 27 2014, 10:50 AM (3,110 Views) | |
| TerraBooma | Dec 29 2014, 08:47 PM Post #41 |
Sorcerer
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QUICK DEPLOY ADORABLE PICTURES |
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| drmigit2 | Dec 29 2014, 09:07 PM Post #42 |
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Magus
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DANCE DANCE BABY! For real though guys, this is a text game within a video game. Let's step back and realize that this is 99% just for funzies. |
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| Ares the Proud | Dec 29 2014, 10:41 PM Post #43 |
Recruiter and Wargod
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To be fair, while Kuronan could phrase things better, he's at least putting out arguements, and people are just being assholes to him (from my point of view at least, feel free to disagree), also, if anyone gets to complain, it is SI, if anything could go wrong this arc for us, it has, lost every fight that it's possible to lose, failed every important roll, and if something looked to go right, turns out we had the wrong information. If you guys want to disagree with that, feel free to put out arguements, but don't just say i'm wrong with no reasoning behind it. |
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| OrderlyAnarchist | Dec 29 2014, 11:41 PM Post #44 |
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Tidecallercaller
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Well I mean... You didn't get much because you didn't win much. You can spin it however you want, but I won plenty of matches subbed for SI, and I've won matches for SI in the past when their roster was much more limited. At the end of the day, if you want results you have to earn them, and SI didn't do that. You decided to go all final boss on everyone? That's great, but there's always a chance you lose. Look at Demacia. Not only did they not gain anything in Hextech, but they lost their king, their armies, and their reputation. At least you all got something. Unfortunately for you guys, a -61 score on the balance of power isn't going to get you anything in the way of relevancy, and honestly, SI is *lucky* that they got as much as they did this arc. Last time a faction was losing that horribly, they were *removed* from the arc. |
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| LightPhyXer | Dec 30 2014, 01:20 AM Post #45 |
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Conjurer
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I'm going to have to agree with OrderlyAnarchist here. Ionia was bottom-tier in featured matches pretty much until the first tournament. On top of that, World Systems didn't love us very much, either, with us losing 2 champion pickup petitions before the switch to the rules came in, losing Udyr, and, of course, the Library incident which we will apparently never live down. Heck, the way the Udyr tournament weekend was handled basically robbed us of one of the major reasons we picked up Kinkou Order for our research: access to Jax before Bilgewater. Yet here we are, with Ionia pulling out a few pretty good showings in the final parts of the arc in terms of featured matches/tournaments and ending up the winner. Of course, arguably you could say "Well, Ionia's roster is OP!" or "SI's roster just doesn't have the potential!", but a champion's strengths aren't just unlocked out of nowhere. There still needs to be people who play those champions and are familiar with them. We used to shy away from Akali so much that we desperately wanted to have Ahri as an option, but well, Kawaii Asuna came in and we ended up barely using Ahri. I spent time practicing Irelia and Lee (and found a new go-to champion in Irelia), and I know Revoluxionist was grinding it out with much of the roster, as well. In the end, I still firmly subscribe to the notion that League is a team-based game, and that the players working together, regardless of champions, are what carry the day. Champion picks will tilt things in one team's favor, of course, sometimes very much so, but there was always potential in SI's roster. Maybe not as much as the Ionian roster (though that's arguable), but there were definite paths to winning that did not require unfeasible conditions (such as "Every lane wins!"). The roster could win, and it kind of felt like no one on SI actually believed it enough to get all of their spirit behind the SI banner. There were just so many cries of "please give us the meta" whenever champions were discussed. |
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| Ares the Proud | Dec 30 2014, 01:55 AM Post #46 |
Recruiter and Wargod
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Personally, i think the reason we lost most of the matches is because of a combination of not having anyone with spirit, of course, when we keep losing everything morale doesn't go up. And we have no hypercarry (Such as Fizz, Katarina, Graves, actually any ADC except for Urgot (good bully, lacks late game power) and Kalista (Extreme skillcap and too new for anyone to really master) anivia, Trynd, half of Ionia's roster, etc)) we really lacked anyone we could get fed and win everything with, none of our champs snowball very well, which is one thing that i've noticed tends to win pick-ups and some featureds. Yea, we didn't win anything, and until recently, that meant we were stuck with the champions we we already losing with, it was nice to get a couple extra champs at the end, but at that point, we were already at like -50 BoP and we'd given up. You keep saying our roster has potential, and maybe from the receiving end it does, but on our end we have noticed that all our good champions are AP but then you guys build MR and HP and we cannot kill you, or in Ionias case, champions such as Akali and Yi end the fight before we can get our damage out there, we have a roster full of champs not known for carrying games, and while we had potential, we had to do so many things right to get it to happen. For example, if we are facing Bilge, we have to avoid letting their mid or bot lane get any kills for most of the game, top lane too if they have jax, outfarm them, and then get them to group as 5 close together so we can get fiddles and karthus AoE going. If they split with Jax, we had to send two people to deal with him (we lack any duelists that can fight off jax) Against IOnia, same thing, except instead of mid or bot, replace with entire team, most of your champs are hypercarries in some shape or form, maybe not kennen and a few others, but the ones you played were hypercarries. Against Frel, we had a little bit more leeway, but we had to end the game fast because they outscaled our champions. (lets be fair, we only had about 5 or 6 that were truely usable, eve is horrible, especially in the new jungle, and they nerfed elise so far into the ground, we're still trying to dig her up with our undead labor force.) Its not that we COULDN'T win, its that it was a lot more work to even break even, while most of the other factions could just get one champion 2 or 3 kills and go nuts, we had to get our entire team up on gold to stand a chance. |
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| LightPhyXer | Dec 30 2014, 03:25 AM Post #47 |
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Conjurer
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I'm going to have to disagree there. For Bilge, Jax can be fought very well by Hecarim, since Hecarim can bully with Q, taking no minion aggro, while Jax has to auto and draw minion aggro to deal any significant damage back. That can easily snowball in Hecarim's favor. Hec also has pretty good roam potential with Homeguards, E, and Ult. This applies especially if the Bilge midlaner is TF or Diana, though obviously Fizz and Kat CAN get ganked. It's just harder. Amumu also acts as an excellent catch-all against Jax while also ulting the rest of his team (ideally). Karthus is basically the ADC of the APCs, spamming out stupid amounts of damage with items. Just peel for him like you would another ADC, and feed him like you would an APC. Even if he sometimes does want to die in a good spot, if he doesn't die he spams out more Qs. They can certainly buy MR to counter it, but Abyssal Scepter on someone like Amumu is excellent to help up your carry's damage. Stick Fiddle and Thresh botlane, and stop Fiddle from maxing Dark Wind first, since it's the most horribly scaling of his abilities. That passive will help bump damage again, along with Amumu's. Combine with Void Staff and you're shredding 50+ MR from a single target, which pretty much negates a negatron. Combine with Void Staffs all around, + the 15% MR shred from Karthus wall, and you're not exactly dealing with unmanageable amounts of MR even during the lategame. If a split comes, go aggressive with Amumu + Hecarim initiations, or, alternatively, take TP on either Hecarim or Karthus (or both) and just hold a turret. If Jax TPs, you follow, if he doesn't, wait until he shows on the map again. This strategy works against Freljord, too, though yeah, if they pick Trynd you are kind of fucked. At least Karthus can pick up low health Trynd kills after ult expires, and the incident AoE from teamfights should send him into ult state quickly. It's just Trynd won't ever teamfight unless he's massively fed, and heck, even then, he's better off just splitting. Again, Fiddle is important here for being able to shut one person down for 3+ seconds with Fear + Silence. Ionia does offer problems, since you actually do pretty much get outscaled in every lane with Irelia Top, Akali Mid, and then Lucian Botlane. There really isn't much you can do except hope the fuckups happen. A more aggressive pick in Nocturne could be good here, picking smaller fights instead of full teamfights, while Karthus just splits and ults for aid + cleanup and Hec uses that movespeed to be where he needs to be faster than the enemy team. Definitely a precarious game, though, as a single snowball will ruin your chances. In the end, yeah, you may have had to work harder than other factions (which is somewhat debatable), but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done. |
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| PONCHOGRANDE | Dec 30 2014, 03:28 AM Post #48 |
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Meanwhile in Top Lane...
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I am a little disappointed in some of the complaining going around from some of my fellow spooks. When you signed up for SI you should have known what you were getting into just from looking at the roster. Our roster is filled with underpowered and underplayed champions, many of which take time to learn to play at a passing level (which led to some fairly horrendous results in pickup matches). But the real reason we failed was an inability to execute in game, we lacked experienced shot callers and practice. We understood the ins and outs of our comp near the end of the arc, but by then it was too late. To be perfectly honest with our horrendous record I am shocked we came out of this arc with as much as we did. We have more islands then most factions, and are the main players in the largest battles this arc (we might not have won, but we were metal as fuck). You can't say the same for Piltover last arc. However, for those of you saying that SI didn't put any effort into this arc has yet to see the numerous theory crafting documents and guides created by the spook community. A few reached 20+ pages if I recall correctly. (Don't get me wrong, being salty for Krocylea and Stormhaven is well earned. Goes to show how a few scraps of misinformation can make everything go to hell.) Edited by PONCHOGRANDE, Dec 30 2014, 03:54 AM.
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| Kaynunot | Dec 30 2014, 03:57 AM Post #49 |
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
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I know I'm cutting off a lot to offer my own input on this, but... There's some things that got left out: First, Penetration counts Flats before Percentages. If you go Flat Penetration you should be forgetting about a Void Staff as it will penetrate less than your flat penetration. Second, I don't think you are putting Runes Or Masteries into this equation: Most people who play smart against the Shadow Isles will pick Scaling Magic Resist Runes because they realize Shadow Isles Early Game isn't very threatening. Around level 6 (Level 6 Power Spike) these runes will offer 9 magic resist along with base magic resist. That doesn't sound like a whole lot, but at this point you probably won't have Sorcerer Treads or anything like that, Most people will have components for First Item. Now, let's assume we start a fight around level 9. Around this point you get 12 Magic Resist, we only get 3 magic penetration against your Base Magic Resist stat, which is 30. Against Melee Champions, who end up with 52.5 Magic Resist at level 18 without Runes Or Masteries, this is bad for us because a magic resist item will pretty much nullify our focused penetration, especially if they have Scaling MR Glyphs (who doesn't get those at some point again? Also that would be... 89.5 Magic Resist for Melee and 57 for Ranged) And you forget the versatility of Magic Resistance Items. Attack Damage Carries can buy a Mercurial Scimitar and a Maw of Malmortius and get a damage boost in addition to countering us. Mages can quickly grab an Athene's Unholy Grail for some CDR, Mana Regen like hell and Resistances with Ability Power, and an Abyssal themselves. Tanks can build any number of items, including Spirit Visage or (gods forbid) Locket Of The Iron Solari. Magic Resist is easy as hell to stack but Riot nerfed Penetration long ago, it's not easy to counter it. Now, let's examine these match-ups: Jax Verses Hecarim only works well if Hecarim can snowball into a strong mid-game. Jax already has great base stats and is a great duelist. Throw him in the Jungle and he can become a Bruiser that puts Hecarim pouting into a corner. When it comes to duelling, Jax is essentially Yi if he wanted to be Tankier, and it's not easy to fight Jax later on, when he has Tankier Stats. You also forget Hecarim is a Mid-Game Carry, not a Hyperscaling Late-Gamer. Karthus does not counter hyper-mobile Champions like Katarina and Fizz and I'm gonna be blunt, you are a terrible liar if you try telling me otherwise. A Good Twisted Fate won't even give you the chance to fight back with a good Gold Card Lichbane into Q and a few autos. Frejlord is what we want to be but aren't: Heavy CC Teamfights with a lot of Burst and Deletion Potential. Nearly every Frejlord Ult in their Meta Comp is a Stun. Ashe Ult, Sejuani Ult, Braum Ult, Lissandra Ult, Anivia Q, Gragas can Disengage us with Ult, Trundle can make our 'Tank' go Bye Bye, and Udyr... Plus Nunu Ult in a Team Fight, when properly positioned and channeled can get up to 250% of his AP and Believe me, HE CAN FULLY CHANNEL IT IF SOMEONE GETS A GOOD STUN OFF! Ionia is League Of Hypercarries, or League of Lockdown if they want. A Composition of Wukong, Yasuo and Sona could lock a team down for a very long time while Varus, Lucian (literally a Class A Carry) or Kennen shreds the entire team. There's obviously Yi who scales like a truck, Akali who gets to the point you barely get to see the Q before your screen goes Gray. Ahri deletes pretty easily with strong mobility, oh yea, and Irelia who can tank and do True Damage to the enemy team while contributing her Ult to team fights. Edited by Kaynunot, Dec 30 2014, 04:24 AM.
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| LightPhyXer | Dec 30 2014, 05:24 AM Post #50 |
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Conjurer
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I'm gonna have to cut you off right here, because Riot changed this way back when League of Black Cleavers came out, ostensibly to deal with hypertanks and % penetration not doing much of anything. It's % Penetration before Flat penetration, which is why Void Staff and Last Whisper got nerfs to their % Penetration values. Now, of course, I understand what you mean. Fiddle passive, Amumu passive, and Abyssal Scepter are all Magic Resist REDUCTIONS, which are applied before all penetration stats. Regardless, though, it's not like all your damage is magical. Hecarim will put out significant AoE physical damage. Hell, for fun, you could do Fiddle + Nocturne bot. Admittedly, the buff is very recent, but that extra movement toward feared units makes Noct nearly impossible to peel off, and when you chain fears + silence that's 1 person out for nearly 4 seconds. Plus, you act like other factions don't have loads of comps that's pretty much all magic damage aside from the ADC. If magic damage is so easy to counter, counter it and focus on taking the ADC instead. Dead ADCs deal no damage at all, and after that point, you then face an all-magic damage comp. That's the basic win-con for nearly any type of team, anyway. And level 9 is absurdly arbitrary. Depending on game, lane, and success, players will hit level 9 at different times, meaning there will usually be an advantage to be leveraged somewhere through some combination of jungle/mid/top. Plus, we all know if a teamfight actually breaks out lvl 9, it will depend on who got the most CC/best focus out, not on runes/items unless someone got fed pretty hard. At that point, no one will be tanky enough to actually take 5 people's worth of damage for very long, regardless of damage type. I said nothing about Karthus countering anybody, but I'm pretty sure a Karthus will screw with Kat or Fizz early if he's good at landing Qs. He just get's all-inned really hard once they get ~level 3 and once they get ults the all-in is truly real. Which is precisely why someone like Hec top is good, because he can give midlane a hand pretty easily. Lane Hec can roam into the jungle, too. Given the current state of the jungle, it's pretty likely solo lanes hit 6 while the junglers are around 4-5. That's massive and abusable. Of course, that requires even more coordination. And what I said about lane Hec versus lane Jax means that unless some kind of terrible screwup happens, Jax should never get a single CS for free, which Jax just cannot handle because he has no internal sustain to his kit. Forcing him back will delay his items, which in turn delays his powerspikes and allows Hec to roam. I'm also not sure why you think Hec falls off lategame. If he's been itemizing any sort of CDR at all, W is up pretty often, and if everyone goes at the same time, Hec should really not go down since he heals off ALL damage dealt to enemy champions within range, regardless of source. Jungle Hec is of course a different story, since he has to deal with the reduced goldflow. Trinity > Full tank Hec is absurd, as long as the team is behind him. |
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| Tofuology | Dec 30 2014, 06:07 AM Post #51 |
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Nya Nya~
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When it comes to SI, I was really expecting you guys to run the wombo combo comp, but was somewhat disappointed when you guys didn't really run it. I saw it once, and that was in the first tournament against us, where you ran Amumu/Fid/Karth/Hec/Thresh and nearly won that game. If Hec was in any of those fights instead of being stuck up top the entire time, you guys could have steamrolled us in fights. I was actually scared of this AoE comp (even if it's ap heavy, it's still deadly) and kinda wished you guys ran this more often. When I was subbing for SI, I kept suggesting using this comp, but there was no clear interest of doing this, and the games were kinda too difficult. SI, is this because you guys do not have players for these champs? I'd like to know. |
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| Birkeland | Dec 30 2014, 07:43 AM Post #52 |
Initiate
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Honestly, while Kuronan was getting a touch combative, my comment was mostly to the people being assholes. I'm not going to get into why SI lost so badly. Maybe it was your summoners like some thought, I would agree you had the weakest roster. When it comes down to it, Ionia was right there with you of losing every role and losing every fight. We had the largest number of sign ups for summoners, but were with Freljord in the lowest number of people voting and always struggling to put together a team. Until the first tournament, we were arguably in just as bad of a position, albeit not in the BoP. I think it is worth looking into new systems to help out struggling factions a little bit. Aatrox was intended as that system, but it is never an option that Ionia could take, and using that system was a catalyst for the void mess. |
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| silencermage | Dec 30 2014, 10:02 AM Post #53 |
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Research and Devlelopment
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Everyone be cool calm and " Let life slip away" =D I regret nothing playing for shadow isles sure we lost but I had fun. More fun then last arc. I actually met people through matches and got to play karthus almost every single game since the start of the arc. And now my dream of an undead utopia is possible in motion I'm pumped. I can't wait to play for SI again and bring forth a spooky society that I can rule with a bony skinless fist. |
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| Kwon Ri Sae | Dec 30 2014, 10:31 AM Post #54 |
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Name Changer Extraordinare
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Light makes it sound nice and all, but here's what really happened: (midway through the arc) : Hey guys, I'll be playing more this arc, so expect to see me in more Featured Matches. Great, we've been trying to run more champs with waveclear so we can stall out for Yi in the late game. What can you play? : Akali. : <.<Edited by Kwon Ri Sae, Dec 30 2014, 12:17 PM.
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| Kwon Ri Sae | Dec 30 2014, 11:06 AM Post #55 |
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Name Changer Extraordinare
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: I can also kinda play Kennen.(After a featured matches loss) : Let me play Akali D: : Ok, we're going to completely build a team based off of supporting your Akali.Birkeland: Gonna pick up Sona woo ^.^ : Ok guys we got this now, we have a team comp ![]() (The Return of the Exploding Library, Pt 2) (Akali is injured while reading a book and is MIA'd) : I can play Ahri.(Gives up first blood to ggpallys. And two more kills.) : Screw it, Lee Sin + Irelia bot lane.Edited by Kwon Ri Sae, Dec 30 2014, 12:16 PM.
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| Whitakker | Dec 30 2014, 01:21 PM Post #56 |
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Lunari Cleric
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MFW I saw Ionia won:![]() Coincidentally, this was also my reaction last Sunday to this very team throwing away our playoff chance. At least Smitty's gone, now we need to get rid of Dimitroff... |
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| Sexy Soraka | Dec 30 2014, 11:47 PM Post #57 |
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A delicious porkchop.
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I'm guessing they didn't know your previous name (Twilight Shroud)? That or your fellow Onions were new this arc, because I definitely remember your Janna and Akali plays.
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| 501st Big Mike | Dec 31 2014, 01:15 AM Post #58 |
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I reserve the right to be loudly opinionated on subjects I am completely ignorant of
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There is this awesome SNL skit that is perfect to describe what Ionia did. Sadly, I cannot find it online anywhere (if anyone has Netflix or whatever its the opening skit on Season 37 Episode 14). It's from the 2012 Republican Primaries featuring one of the SNL cast playing Mitt Romney. The Mitt Romney character talks about how he was coming in 2nd and 3rd in a lot of states that week, and is bragging about it. He acting like being in 3rd for the whole primary and then swooping in at the very end to win is the way politicians are supposed to do it. He says stuff about how the guy in first place is under too much pressure, and how the guy in last place is embarrassing himself and should just drop out already. Looking back at that all I can do is laugh at how Ionia did exactly that this arc XD |
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| OrderlyAnarchist | Dec 31 2014, 01:45 AM Post #59 |
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Tidecallercaller
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I'd just like to point out the same thing I pointed out over and over again through the arc. Shadow Isles never ever played with the comps Shadow Isles won with. Like... You guys kept trying to use these strategies that never worked, then you'd do something different, win, and go back to doing the things that didn't work. You never ever used the steamroll comp that made Shadow Isles a legitimately terrifying faction... Heca top and Nocturne mid, supported by an early pressure jungler like elise or evelynn to steamroll everything while karthus thresh bot scales into a beast. Instead you went with hypercarries in all the lanes comps that all lost lane and got smashed away. |
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| LightPhyXer | Dec 31 2014, 06:36 AM Post #60 |
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Conjurer
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It's a good thing we are gamers and not politicians, then, right? I also don't like how you implied that Ionia was trashtalking first place or last place. Our ambition to dethrone Bilge from 1st place was hardly a hidden fact, but much of that came out as trying (and failing for much of the arc) to beat them in featured matches. As for SI, I got the sense you guys were trashtalking yourselves a lot harder than any other faction. |
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: Hey guys, I'll be playing more this arc, so expect to see me in more Featured Matches.
Great, we've been trying to run more champs with waveclear so we can stall out for Yi in the late game. What can you play?




12:32 PM Jul 11