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| Topic Started: Feb 24 2015, 12:25 PM (2,224 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Feb 26 2015, 01:35 AM Post #41 |
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Quite the contrary, the fact that Runeterra has managed to even develop is proof that it's possible that there are other worlds of its caliber out there. You can say that Runeterra has to be unique, because, well, magic. But by that reasoning, there's no way to predict anything that happens in the universe of Runeterra, because it's inherently unpredictable, because the universe does not behave consistently. Science or logic need not apply. There's no such thing as a truly universal natural law. If that's the case, the Factions itself starts to lose meaning, as it's a system created to attempt to predict what happens to Runeterra and the space around it in specific circumstances and create a story based off of that. This is practically the same argument as whether or not there's life on other planets. It could be rare, but to dismiss the possibility that it can happen by calling it magical or unique is highly questionable. It would be, as you say, fallacious, as it operates under the assumption that we/Runeterra are the center of the universe, a spectacular exception in a vast universe of possibility. I believe that we could, in fact, use the Drake Equation to determine how many worlds there are with powerful rune magic in Runeterra's universe. Simply replace the variable for being able to communicate across space with being able to destroy worlds, and you're ready to go. |
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| ShadowKnight1224 | Feb 26 2015, 01:54 AM Post #42 |
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
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I don't see where your evidence is for the assertion that "the fact that Runeterra has managed to even develop is proof that it's possible that there are other worlds of its caliber out there." There is no proof that Runeterra is not a unique (or semi-unique) planet in the cosmos. The Drake Equation is a valid thought exercise, but it's merely that, a thought exercise. Furthermore, what you're doing in most of your post is called reductio ad absurdum, which you'll find is also a fallacy.
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| Deleted User | Feb 26 2015, 02:17 AM Post #43 |
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Deleted User
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And you'll find there is another fallacy, one called the fallacy fallacy, where a party claims to have won an argument because the other party used a fallacy. While we're talking fallacies, you have used not one but two fallacies in your last post. The second one I am talking about is the argument from ignorance fallacy. You claim that because I lack evidence that Runeterra isn't unique, that my position must be incorrect. You are attempting to shift the burden of proof onto me. I believe the claim that Runeterra doesn't abide by the laws of its universe, and is thus uniquely powerful, to be incredulous. What is so special about Runeterra that could not occur on any other world? I would like you to prove your exception. |
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| ShadowKnight1224 | Feb 26 2015, 02:30 AM Post #44 |
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
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Well, the way I see it, we should make decisions based on facts and things we can prove. We have no indication that Runeterra is meaningless in the cosmic scale of things, but we DO have an indication that Runeterra is significant in the cosmic equilibrium: that Bard has taken an active interest in it. I have at least that fact in my favour. Also note that I never said that Runeterra did not abide by the laws of ITS universe, but ours. While I agree that some assumptions need to be made in order for Factions to exist and be enjoyable, I do not consider that this particular one (that Runeterra is meaningless in the cosmic scale) is true or beneficial for Factions. Edited by ShadowKnight1224, Feb 26 2015, 02:30 AM.
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| Deleted User | Feb 26 2015, 02:38 AM Post #45 |
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Deleted User
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If Runeterra does abide by the laws of its universe, then a world comparable to Runeterra should be able to develop, given enough time and space. That would mean Runeterra is not inherently unique. On the subject of Bard, I've given up trying to prove specifics. We simply don't have enough information to come to a solid conclusion, imo. There's too much interpretation required. |
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| Rextreff | Feb 26 2015, 02:44 AM Post #46 |
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Hoy, small fry
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It's impossible for Runeterra to not abide by the laws of the universe it is in due to the very nature of laws. Just because Bard is concerned with the cosmic equilibrium doesn't mean that's the reason Bard appeared in Runeterra in the first place. |
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| Matsokune | Feb 26 2015, 02:48 AM Post #47 |
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Praise Be To Red Owl
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Does anyone mind if I draw this argument to a close? I can understand this is really Serious Business, but let me remind everyone that we're arguing science in a fantasy world where absolutely jack shit is set in stone? There could be other worlds exactly like Runeterra, or the planet Runeterra is on could be the only planet in existence for a thousand lightyears. We can't prove or disprove either side and things probably feel more heated than they really are to me, so I want the argument to end. We can argue the same thing about our own universe and get nowhere right now because what we know about right now, until our technology improves, is all we know exists, and could or could not actually be all that exists. We can't prove either side right and to attempt to disprove either side is a mindless waste of time. From what I know of the theories about our universe, one of the more commonly accepted theories is that the universe is infinite, and that any countless number of worlds exactly like ours or hell, even better than ours exist. We can not scientifically prove or disprove this, but is it one of the commonly accepted theories. Can we agree on this until we hold concrete proof that it is or is not true? EDIT: On a side note, pardon me if I just spoke total gibberish, it's five in the morning and I forgot to sleep. |
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| Rextreff | Feb 26 2015, 02:56 AM Post #48 |
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Hoy, small fry
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What are even arguing about |
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| Matsokune | Feb 26 2015, 02:57 AM Post #49 |
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Praise Be To Red Owl
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Whether or not the universe Runeterra is in is infinite, and what that means for Bard's role as a maintainer of the cosmic balance. |
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| Rextreff | Feb 26 2015, 03:04 AM Post #50 |
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Hoy, small fry
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If it helps or not with the argument I don't think or think that the universe Runeterra is in is or isn't infinite. Technically there's a 50% chance that it is infinite because of there are two options of a state of being or not being, but in an other way if the universe is infinite there would be an infinite amount of everything, for there to not be it wouldn't be infinite, and there must be an infinite amount of omnipotent beings for there not being there wouldn't make it omnipotent, but here a contradiction arises because an omnipotent being couldn't exist and therefore that means an infinite universe couldn't exist, though if there is an omnipotent it could use its powers to make anything disallowing it be omnipotent nonexistent, which again would disprove there being an infinite universe. Or the omnipotent being could use its power to make the universe finite, but the reason the omnipotent exists is because it is in a universe that is infinite, but again being omnipotent means not being limited by the laws of whichever universe it is in.
Edited by Rextreff, Feb 26 2015, 03:10 AM.
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| Matsokune | Feb 26 2015, 03:07 AM Post #51 |
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Praise Be To Red Owl
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There are so many 'or's in that statement I thought it was a row boat. |
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| ShadowKnight1224 | Feb 26 2015, 03:10 AM Post #52 |
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
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I think a suitable compromise is to agree that there are indeed worlds just like Runeterra out there, but that they are important enough in the cosmic scale that Bard takes a personal interest in keeping them safe. I would also like to reiterate that this in no way makes Bard concerned with balance on any scale but that of the cosmos itself. And even, the cares less about the philosophical aspect and more about the pragmatic fact that cosmic equilibrium is the best way to preserve the cosmos. |
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| Rextreff | Feb 26 2015, 03:10 AM Post #53 |
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Hoy, small fry
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I forgot to make a new post but I edited my older one |
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| C Drive | Feb 26 2015, 11:19 AM Post #54 |
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real time webcam
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Did they retcon Kayle and Morgana coming from another world? And Malphite coming from another world? And Taric coming from another world? I honestly don't know if they did, but if they didn't, then other worlds still exist. Also, wouldn't the Void and the Grove technically be other worlds? |
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| rinsujo | Feb 26 2015, 11:46 AM Post #55 |
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Winter's Claw for Life.
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Dimensions could be worlds. They 'retconned' it in such a way that the league summoning them from other worlds didn't happen, but in a case by case basis, their own specific lore hasn't been changed yet leaving them in a weird limbo of being from-other-worlds and potentially not-from-other-worlds at the same time. So it ends up solving nothing. Yay retcon! It has made so much additional lore and background and storytelling possible! Clearly this is the best decision Riot has ever made! ...as a Nyrothian, have i grasped this Valoranian concept of "Sarcasm" correctly? |
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| 501st Big Mike | Feb 26 2015, 05:07 PM Post #56 |
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I reserve the right to be loudly opinionated on subjects I am completely ignorant of
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There are few reasons why someone who's job is to protect the cosmic balance cares about what happens to Runeterra, like Bard. First is that he only cares about the Cosmic balance within Runeterra itself. He wants specifically Runeterra to be cosmically balanced and doesn't care about outside (or cares about outside of runeterra but to a lesser extent). Multiple reasons for this possibility, I'll let you guys fill them out. Another is that Runeterra is special for some reason. It could lie on some cosmic leyline or have hidden magic potential or something else that can radiate out to the rest of the universe if Runeterra falls out of cosmic balance, creating problems elsewhere. The last one that I have is the domino effect. Something happens in Runeterra, which is small on cosmic scale, but leads to bigger things. One example I have on this: The void swallows Runeterra whole. Not big change to overall universe (pretty big to all us factioners though), but the Void uses the power it gained from this to swallow a slightly more important world, then another, and another, eventually creating a large scale catastrophe throughout the cosmos and severely throwing cosmic balance out of whack. |
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12:31 PM Jul 11