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Ziggs Strategy Guide; Know anything about Ziggs? Share it here!
Topic Started: May 24 2015, 10:21 AM (625 Views)
Tofuology
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Nya Nya~
Reserved for Ziggs strategy/guide. Feel free to share anything that works for you!
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Rextreff
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Hoy, small fry
I've written an in-depth guide on how to support as Ziggs. You can read it here: http://www.lolking.net/guides/343253
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Tofuology
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Nya Nya~
Here’s my Ziggs guide (mid lane)

Runes
I have 2 setups I usually use, depending on ad or ap matchup.

AP Matchup
9X Hybrid Penetration Marks (8.1 Armor Pen, 5.5 Magic Pen)
9X Ability Power Seals (5.3 AP)
9X Magic Resist Glyphs (12 MR)
3X Ability Power Quints (15AP)

This is a standard ap mid setup for me, when going against ap champs. The marks are for harassing with your passive/sieging towers, ap seals and quints are for power, and glyphs for mr. if you wanted to, you could add armor or mr into the seal slot, but I feel that with Ziggs, you’re going to be quite safe during the laning phase, so armor wasn’t needed.

AD Matchup
9X Hybrid Penetration Marks (8.1 Armor Pen, 5.5 Magic Pen)
9X Armor Seals (9 Armor)
9X Armor Glyphs (6.3 Armor)
3X Ability Power Quints (15AP)

This is kind of the same as the first set, except it’s against ad champs. Typically, when I go mid against an ad, it’ll be Zed, Yasuo, or Talon. I feel that more armor is needed early on, so you don’t die so quick. If you wanted, you can put scaling health glyphs in replace of the armor, and that should work fine.

Lastly, there is a third page, but I only use it when I know I will win, or if I need to win early on with raw power.

Full AP
9X Hybrid Penetration Marks (8.1 Armor Pen, 5.5 Magic Pen)
9X Ability Power Seals (5.3 AP)
9X Ability Power Glyphs (11 AP)
3X Ability Power Quints (15AP)

This is for full on aggression. You are most definitely going to die if you get caught out, but with the range Ziggs has, you could pull this off. This build is NOT RECOMMENDED for people just starting Ziggs, or in mid lane in general.




Masteries
Once again, I run two masteries, depending on the matchup of ad or ap.

AP
Posted Image

AD
Posted Image

To me, these are my go to for the respective matchups. I’m not too worried about AP mids, so I end up going into the utility. But I am more worried about AD mids, so I end up going into the defensive for more survivability.




Summoner Spells
I usually take Flash (which is a necessity on Ziggs) and Exhaust. The reason for Exhaust is because of the burst mid laners I end up going against. It also helps greatly against ad champs, and escaping ganks if you don’t want to blow flash.
Other viable spells include:

  • Ignite – Gives more of a kill potential inlane, even though I’ve felt Ziggs never needed it due to his ult.
  • Heal – More of a safe lane against some of the burst champs in mid. Somewhat of a bad idea when you have your adc already taking heal.
  • Barrier – Same reasoning as heal. Helps to negate some of the burst by some of the threatening champs.
  • Teleport – Gives roaming potential, and could put you in a better (and faster) position to ult when ganking, which could potentially save lives.





Skills
My typical skill order is R > Q > W > E
Q is your major harass and power of your kit. It’s a low cooldown, pretty low mana cost, and does pretty good damage.
W is maxed second, because I love the cooldown on the satchel, which can help to escape fights more often. Mana cost stays the same the entire time, which is also nice.
E is maxed last, because of the low damage of the mines. If they are smart, no one is going to pop all 11 mines just to get rid of it. This skill also does have a slow, but it’s a really small slow, so it really doesn’t help too much.
R is maxed when you can, this is your execute/teamfight/GOT EM COACH! skill.


I'll add more in a little bit.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
No offence, but I find hybrid pen runes to be highly overrated. I follow some diamond youtubers and the comments section are always like "why no hybrid pen runes???" and the poor guys have to explain over and over why other runes are better. Very few players in probuilds.net have hybrid pen in their rune setups, and they're just overall outclassed (typically by magic pen).
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Tofuology
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Nya Nya~
ShadowKnight1224
May 27 2015, 07:26 PM
No offence, but I find hybrid pen runes to be highly overrated. I follow some diamond youtubers and the comments section are always like "why no hybrid pen runes???" and the poor guys have to explain over and over why other runes are better. Very few players in probuilds.net have hybrid pen in their rune setups, and they're just overall outclassed (typically by magic pen).
But here's the thing tho. Whether you're laning or sieging a tower as Ziggs, a good Ziggs will use his passive to do a lot of damage to their enemy (or the tower). Ziggs takes advantage of the hybrid pen marks because of his passive. Sure, you can just go full mpen, but hybrid really does help in destroying towers, and in early game harass. Him, and Orianna are the two off the top of my head that can take full advantage of the hybrid marks.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
Actually Ziggs and Orianna both have additional magic damage to their autoattacks. If you add the Arcane Blade mastery on top, then most of your autoattack damage will be magical, which makes magpen runes even more useful on them. This makes Ziggs and Orianna even more inclined to get magpen runes over hybrid, not less.

Let's take Ziggs and Ori levels 1 to 7. Hybrid pen runes drastically fall off after the laning phase is over (unlike magpen, who never stop being useful at any point), so let's just compare the levels where hybrid pen runes actually matter.

Spoiler: click to toggle


For Ziggs, there's just no reason to ever pick up hybrids instead of magpen. Your autos start at almost 40% magical damage and just get better from there. For Orianna, you might consider that she hits an all-time low of ~29% magical damage, but that's practically a third of her autoattack as magical damage, and if you land consecutive autos on the same target, the damage begins to increase (at level 3, an Orianna with 2 stacks of Clockwork Windup is dealing ~34% of her auto as magical damage, crossing the one third threshold).

The main reason for hybrid pen marks for autoattack harass. The larger the percentage of your auto that is magical damage, the more obsolete hybrid pen marks become.
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Kwon Ri Sae
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Name Changer Extraordinare
I can't afford magic pen, so I run hybrid.
Edited by Kwon Ri Sae, May 27 2015, 11:04 PM.
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Purple Bavarois
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Restless relentlessly.
Ability power seals? Armor glyphs?! WHY?!
Secondary runes are worthless.
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Tofuology
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Nya Nya~
ShadowKnight1224
May 27 2015, 10:30 PM
Actually Ziggs and Orianna both have additional magic damage to their autoattacks. If you add the Arcane Blade mastery on top, then most of your autoattack damage will be magical, which makes magpen runes even more useful on them. This makes Ziggs and Orianna even more inclined to get magpen runes over hybrid, not less.

Let's take Ziggs and Ori levels 1 to 7. Hybrid pen runes drastically fall off after the laning phase is over (unlike magpen, who never stop being useful at any point), so let's just compare the levels where hybrid pen runes actually matter.

Spoiler: click to toggle


For Ziggs, there's just no reason to ever pick up hybrids instead of magpen. Your autos start at almost 40% magical damage and just get better from there. For Orianna, you might consider that she hits an all-time low of ~29% magical damage, but that's practically a third of her autoattack as magical damage, and if you land consecutive autos on the same target, the damage begins to increase (at level 3, an Orianna with 2 stacks of Clockwork Windup is dealing ~34% of her auto as magical damage, crossing the one third threshold).

The main reason for hybrid pen marks for autoattack harass. The larger the percentage of your auto that is magical damage, the more obsolete hybrid pen marks become.
Even if Ziggs scales better with mpen marks for his autos, you have to remember, his passive is not always up. The passive procs every 12 seconds, with spells reducing the cooldown by four seconds. you can do two things. one, spam all your spells and try to use your passive as much as possible. This will basically run you out of mana just so you can get your passive up and running. Two, auto attack regardless of whether you have your passive up or not, and not spam your skills. In this instance, you maintain your mana for poke/engage/disengage, you're harassing with both your passive and your regular autos, making armor pen from the hybrid marks viable.

Also, you're not losing a whole lot of mpen when running hybrids. At most, you're losing 2.1 magic pen, which is hardly noticeable, when running hybrid marks. You're trading 2.1 magic pen for a lot of early game power, while still maintaining endgame power.


Purple Bavarois
 
Ability power seals? Armor glyphs?! WHY?!

Because in those builds, I rely on either MR, or Armor, not both.

With the MR page, I put in ap seals because of more raw power. In the laning phase, it's a lot better than armor when going against an ap champ, since they will more than likely try to burst you instead of auto you. I'm not worried about ganks as Ziggs, since he can easily farm from afar, and has a moderately decent escape tool.

As for the armor glyphs, I feel more armor is needed against ad mids. While we're fidgeting on cooldowns, they still have their auto attacks, which does a decent amount of damage.

And you have to remember, this is what I do for my mid laners, and this is something that works for me. Take everything with a grain of salt :)
Edited by Tofuology, May 28 2015, 02:24 PM.
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ShadowKnight1224
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If it works for you, go ahead. Personally I find hybrid marks to be extremely niche. I'd only run them on someone like Kayle and a few others. But then again, I've always disagreed with people who fill up their runes with whatever they need to win/survive the laning phase, and then rely on items to do the rest. I've always wanted my runes to be useful throughout the game, even when I'm playing support.
Edited by ShadowKnight1224, May 28 2015, 02:23 PM.
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Purple Bavarois
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Restless relentlessly.
I like the hybrid pen marks as well. They're pretty neat.
I still disagree on the secondary runes though. If you really need more AP, you could always use Health seals and AP glyphs.
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TerraBooma
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Sorcerer
I'd comment but honestly I found an AD and an AP page back in S3 and I have not touched those things since
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Tofuology
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Nya Nya~
ShadowKnight1224
May 28 2015, 02:23 PM
If it works for you, go ahead. Personally I find hybrid marks to be extremely niche. I'd only run them on someone like Kayle and a few others. But then again, I've always disagreed with people who fill up their runes with whatever they need to win/survive the laning phase, and then rely on items to do the rest. I've always wanted my runes to be useful throughout the game, even when I'm playing support.
That's the thing about runes tho. They're mainly used for early game. Yes, there are scaling runes, but when it comes to early game power, it's all coming from runes. Masteries, on the other hand, are more focused towards mid/late game. This is just something to think about.

Purple Bavarois
 
I like the hybrid pen marks as well. They're pretty neat.
I still disagree on the secondary runes though. If you really need more AP, you could always use Health seals and AP glyphs.
But then where is the MR for laning against ap mids? With mid laners going mpen marks and you going health seals and no mr, they're going to be doing nearly true damage against you, because you have no mr. The ap seals are just a filler for more power, that's all. I'm not trying to get the best "bang for my buck." I know that glyphs are better than seals when it comes to ap. But this also holds true for mr; glyphs are better than seals.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
Shiisaa
May 28 2015, 04:05 PM
That's the thing about runes tho. They're mainly used for early game. Yes, there are scaling runes, but when it comes to early game power, it's all coming from runes. Masteries, on the other hand, are more focused towards mid/late game. This is just something to think about.
Magpen runes remain useful the entire game (arpen runes hold their own as well, even if armour outscales MR in most champions), attackspeed runes get better as the game goes on (if you're primarily autoattack based, AS runes for junglers kinda fall off unless they're autoattack reliant), AP runes are deceptively good because they get better once you get a Deathcap, many (if not most) scaling runes are better than flats post-6, AD runes are good if you have a passive that multiplies your bonus AD (like Zed), and CDR runes are by far the best runes in the game in terms of staying relevant from start to finish, particularly if you're not a support or have in-built CDR. Capping your CDR perfectly without wasting your gold is invaluable.


EDIT: Also, MR runes in midlane are slightly overrated in mages. Even mages start at 30 MR, and magpen marks alone only give you about ~10 (counting the mastery). Even with sorc shoes that's only ~25 (still not true damage). They'd need to run magpen quints/glyphs (and give up actual AP) or rush an early guise to actually deal true damage to you.
Edited by ShadowKnight1224, May 28 2015, 05:17 PM.
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Kwon Ri Sae
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Name Changer Extraordinare
Crit danage runes are the best because they do tons of damage late game.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
Ask Konata
May 28 2015, 06:31 PM
Crit danage runes are the best because they do tons of damage late game.
Especially on champions that have crit scaling mechanics, like Yasuo.
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bakaultima
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Invoker
TEAM BUILDER
MODE

21 HOURS AGO
WHEN

43 MINUTES
DURATION

WIN
RESULT
ZIGGS
17 Kills
8 Deaths
12 Assists
20k
Gold
316
Creeps
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