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Questions
Topic Started: Mar 13 2016, 11:01 AM (1,660 Views)
Miniman6565
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Initiate
Hey, I just found out about Factions and am very interested in participating but currently a story is already in progress. I'm honestly not sure where to start and what to do if anything. Am I supposed to just wait for the next arc to start or is there something I can do in the meantime?

Thanks in advance,
- Miniman
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AbiwonKenabi
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I don't think anyone would argue with arcs themed around a civil war, but I think there are other problems preventing that from being a realistic option at present.

For starters, as Mike touched on, the split rosters are just too small. In the past, we've also struggled with roster purity; We would pad out rosters with allied pickups, but by the end of it, the rosters were bizarre and didn't FEEL like the faction anymore (at one point, Karma, Nautilus and Rammus were all on Piltover. It's not the only offender either). Even if we have decent explanations for their presence, it's still baffling to an outsider.

Secondly, is Riot's pending lore. While others would disagree, generally speaking we try to remain in-line with Riot's lore whenever possible (retconning the League out of existence was a major departure on this front, but one that was absolutely necessary). We have done a pretty good job lining up our lore with Riot canon thus far, Great Retcon notwithstanding. It's likely that any ground we cover with a civil war in either Noxus or Freljord would inevitably need to be retconned because of new canon information. And like I said, our lore gels pretty well with canon so far, it would be a shame to ruin it.

As Mike mentioned, we could toy with the idea on a smaller scale. I'd like to see what a split Noxus or split Shurima would look like. They are certainly two of the larger rosters, especially with Taliyah likely going to join Shurima in some form.
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
ChaosControl7
Apr 28 2016, 08:11 PM
A long reply
Swain's Fucking Lore
 
His rise to power seemed unceasing until he was suddenly relegated to inactive status prior to the Ionian Invasion - a bewildering decision which reeked of bureaucratic subversion.
First off, am I the only person capable of reading this? I have seen Irelias, Karmas, Lee Sins, Yis, literally any Ionian fail this very basic thing which is on his lore right fucking there. That's ignoring Shon-Xan in which Katarina participated too, that point is admittedly moot and I probably shouldn't have said it but still, I really doubt they'll be happy with Katarina either. If your Katarina connection to Bilgewater was referencing the skin, you forgot Swain also has a Bilgewater Skin. if this was something in last year's Harrowing that I missed, please forgive me, I never read that initially and I don't know where it is today. And anyone of 'Katarina's wealth and skill' is literally nothing compared to the one undoubtedly in control of the Noxian Treasury. Katarina's promise of wealth is nothing compared to the money Swain undoubtedly has at his disposal, especially because Bilgewater paid him to put those Demacians in servitude for a decade. Now, onto your other points...

Cassiopeia, in attempting to hinder Zaun's access to Pyrikhos, would be in direct violation of League Mandate. Even Shurima isn't allowed to do jack shit regarding the shipments, Cassiopeia'd get her ass smacked down for that, if not by the League and Zaun's Lawyers, by Zaun's freaking Giant Death Robots. And no, whatever armies are in Shurima would likely be capable of realizing they aren't following League Mandate, much less Noxus' mandate, and would likely be uncompliant. Swain'll catch on real fast if she starts executing his men in mass for insubordination too, or any large amount of insubordination. Oh, and those gates are probably protected and not just left to their own devices like last time. I think Zaun is capable of learning from mistakes...

Katarina's a good assassin and saboteur, but guess who's better? Motherfucking LeBlanc. Guess who's side she's on? Whoever gives her the most power, and considering where he is (and the fact he's worked with her before) that's probably going to be Jericho too.

While Sion may defy Jericho, he might not as well. Consider this part of his lore:
Sion's Backstory
 
The men stare. There's fear in their eyes. If they're afraid to look upon victory, I should pluck those craven eyes out. There is no fear in the Grand General's eyes, only approval. He is pleased with this conquest.

Walking the field with the Grand General, surveying the carnage, I ache for another foe. He is hobbled, a leg wound from the battle? If it pains him, he does not show it. A true Noxian. I do not like his pet, though; it picks over the dead, having earned nothing. His war hounds were more fitting company.
It was also by Jericho's oversight that he was released from the seal Boram had put before (and revived by the Black Rose, whom are more likely to side with Jericho.) he has his gripes, but he does respect Swain. I consider his quotes to be... less canon, considering he has no appropriate allied quotes (and he is listed as an Ally too) He's not likely to jump the gun.

And even if Katarina managed to best Swain, who the fuck is the Grand General? You've said multiple times she's not fit to lead an army, it's doubtful any of Swain's loyalists or those who prefer The New Way would want to follow Riven, Cassiopeia and Talon have no real military experience, and would they even trust Darius were they to want to instate him? Only one of the four is even capable of leading and even she undoubtedly has her enemies and people who despise her for Desertion. This Coup would likely cause Noxus to fragment even further and leave themselves open to whatever the hell the other nations want to do to them.

I have seen this point raised at least four times before. Trust me, Jericho is way better than any alternative save perhaps Keiran but we'll never know how that would have gone.
Edited by Kaynunot, Apr 28 2016, 09:56 PM.
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AbiwonKenabi
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Ok Kuronan, you don't have to be so patriotic. Besides, I'm sure there would be some way to fight against Swain. Kat and company are Champions, same as him, and the League of Legends often levels the playing field for even fledgling nations like Shurima to take on giants like Noxus.
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
AbiwonKenabi
Apr 28 2016, 09:45 PM
Kat and company are Champions, same as him, and the League of Legends often levels the playing field for even fledgling nations like Shurima to take on giants like Noxus.
This I am for, not any kind of Coup arc.
Edited by Kaynunot, Apr 28 2016, 09:55 PM.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
Kuronan
Apr 28 2016, 09:36 PM
I have seen this point raised at least four times before. Trust me, Jericho is way better than any alternative save perhaps Keiran but we'll never know how that would have gone.
She may not be a grand strategist, but LeBlanc would make for a perfectly fine Noxian Grand General. She has literally centuries of experience under her belt, she has leadership qualifications, and she's obviously in possession of a cunning, educated mind. While her battle strategy may not be up to par with Swain's, she would more than make up for it in the political/espionage arena.

Since LeBlanc has made no enemies in Noxus (due to her playing all sides and switching whenever it's convenient for her), she could be a neutral figure that could make use of everyone's talents, from Swain's tactics to Riven's common-folk charisma.

It would be a different Noxus for sure, but I would posit that LeBlanc would do at least as good a job as Swain should she be in charge, particularly in a world where the Institute of War still exists.
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AbiwonKenabi
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Not disagreeing with you, SK, but I just wanted to clear something up. LeBlanc is not centuries old, she inherited the name from the previous leader of the Black Rose:

LeBlanc's judgment
 
The crowd parted before her and she gasped. There, in the middle of the throng of onlookers, she stood face to face with herself. Well, herself in a manner of speaking. The situation was instantly familiar, and she waited patiently for her moment to come.

One of the hooded onlookers stepped forward, addressing the doppelganger. "LeBlanc," he rasped to the woman at the center of the circle, "Why have you summoned us? These are dangerous times for the Black Rose to meet in numbers."

The woman opened her mouth to speak, but a sharp wheeze cut her short. She snatched an embroidered handkerchief, speckled in blood, from the folds of her dress and used it to stifle a cough. She cleared her throat. "Brothers and sisters," she spoke weakly, "I have summoned you because I am old, and I have grown frail. I shall be one with the earth soon." She smiled, "The time has come for me to abdicate my position as Matron of the society." She coughed again, louder this time.

"There is one among you who has shown great promise and leadership," she continued, "One whose talents are outstripped only by her ambition and loyalty." She plucked the sparkling brooch from her hair, and the illusion fell away. Her porcelain skin turned ashen, her hair thin and stringy, and her eyes sunken. She extended a wrinkled hand towards LeBlanc, "Evaine, step forward and be recognized." LeBlanc stepped forward, accepting the bauble and nestling it into her neatly styled hair. Her predecessor offered her the staff. "Strange," remarked the old woman, "It's like looking in the mirror." LeBlanc accepted the staff, and the scene about her fell away.


Mind you, this is from her judgment, so it may no longer be true, but this seems like an easy thing to keep in. Not to mention something to make LeBlanc more interesting.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
AbiwonKenabi
Apr 29 2016, 07:02 AM
Not disagreeing with you, SK, but I just wanted to clear something up. LeBlanc is not centuries old, she inherited the name from the previous leader of the Black Rose:
From the same Judgement:

Quote:
 
LeBlanc threw back her head and laughed. "You think that I'm exposed, summoner?" she jeered. "You will never know LeBlanc. She is far older than I. She is older than your precious League." Swain nodded. The doors before her flew open, leaving her alone in the light. The League of Legends awaited her.


LeBlanc is not your average mage. Whether she's a body-hopping sorceress or a Kalista-like gestalt of each of the leaders of the Black Rose, she's definitely got aces up her sleeve.
Edited by ShadowKnight1224, Apr 29 2016, 07:15 AM.
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AbiwonKenabi
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I interpreted that as the LeBlanc illusion being so convincing that most people would assume she is hundreds of years old, when it's all one big trick. The Black Rose is so good at political espionage, so in control, that you would never guess it was different people. The judgment specifically indicates that the old LeBlanc is still the same person with or without the brooch (still the same mind) as is Evaine, our current LeBlanc. It never mentions any spirits taking over or anything of that sort. Whether there is some sort of spirit element to the LeBlanc mantle, I don't know, I just know that it never strongly indicates that, whereas my interpretation is more strongly supported.

If there was a spiritual element, I think it would be better if it was of the Avatar variety; each new Avatar is their own person, but with spiritual training they have access to all previous Avatars' knowledge and skill. So we still get a character, but with that mysterious "ace up her sleeve". Plus I feel League has already done the "same spirit different body" thing and it just hasn't done it for me. I don't like Pantheon's lore, Kalista's lore is only interesting when you relate it to her past, when she was still an individual soul.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
I think the implication is that indeed whoever the current LeBlanc is, she retains her personality but has some sort of advantage granted to her by her predecessors.
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silencermage
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Research and Devlelopment
When do we have the arc where j4 reveals himself to be LeBlanc the whole time dundun daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
My view on Noxus is that there are four categories one must account for when considering how it works:


  • Military: If you can't control the Military, you are just flat out worthless. Anyone who lacks in military experience or respect should not expect to command Noxus' Legions. Sure, Boram didn't have two brain cells to rub together but he had decades if not centuries of being Grand General. He was respected out of Veterancy. Darius and Katarina would dominate here but lack elsewhere. This is LeBlanc's primary weakness as she was historically overthrown because she neglected the Military and they've only become more important in the Rose's absence. If you fail this, you'll get overthrown by a Military Coup.
  • Political: If you can't do Politics, you can't be the leader of any Nation, much less a World Power. You need to know when to apply pressure, when to listen to reason, when to embargo, when to trade, whose hand to kiss and who to smack down. You must know how to deal with other nations. Cassiopeia would excel here (Shurima exempt)If you fail this, guess who might end up with a World War on their hands, or possibly just embargoed by everyone?
  • Nobility: Noxus (used to) have a very powerful aristocrat caste. These people control business, production, they fund the military and keep your soldiers supplied. The Lord and Ladies of the Court, if you spurn them, will make your life a lot more difficult. Darius' Cull made this less of a Priority, but this is still a thing. Anyone except Darius or Talon are good here. Failing this will result in severely constricted resources that will make doing anything progressive difficult. Or, you know, maybe a Poisoned Chalice?
  • Underground: Of course, there's the Underground Powers, the ones you would rather forget at times... Gangs rule the tunnels beneath the capital, and the Black Rose is in their element within Noxus. Talon is good with the Gangs, but LeBlanc controls the Rose. If you fail in this... Well, LeBlanc's a hell of an Assassin, though she's got many at her disposal that probably have better training than even Katarina (I said Training, Katarina's still the best Noxus has officially for an Assassin)


Swain fills all of these. How?

  • Swain's soldiers are undyingly loyal to him. People asked for Demotions to join his unit. That alone should speak of the loyalty he commands. Plus he has Darius on his side too.
  • Swain is the most neutral party in Noxus besides LeBlanc. He was not involved in the Noxian Invasion (well, the first one) and was unavailable for the Rematch. He has done absolutely nothing that could piss off Piltover or Zaun. Only Frejlord and Demacia have reason to hate him, but those were both wars he was likely involved in and areas he likely seeks to conquer, assuming Conquest is his intent.
  • Back in the Journal of Justice, there was a Grand Ball to celebrate Swain becoming a General. Guess who he took with him? LeBlanc. He was never punished for this. And while the Du Couteaus were born into Royalty, the fact that there's no negative word against Swain at least says he can moderately handle nobility.
  • Swain works with the Black Rose to some degree, this is canon, which means he's fine on the Underground Front.


He is at least moderate in all elements of Noxus, which cannot be said for the others.
Edited by Kaynunot, Apr 29 2016, 12:52 PM.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
One thing to remember: every Noxian is a warrior (until they retcon this for edgy sexism). That means that LeBlanc is at least as good a soldier as anybody else, on top of being an intelligent, educated woman (who likely studied books on tactics and warfare because that's the sort of thing that sounds popular in Noxus), and if you're willing to cut Darkwill some slack for being long-lived, I'd like to bring back the point I made earlier about LeBlanc having some sort of advantage granted to her by the previous LeBlancs.

Also, if you count LeBlanc as an ally of Swain granting Swain some sort of benefit in an area he lacks, you can reverse that for LeBlanc and say that having Swain as an ally would go a long way towards covering her lack of tactical experience.
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Kaynunot
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Kuronan Estimare, Psionic Psion of House Estimare
ShadowKnight1224
Apr 29 2016, 12:50 PM
Also, if you count LeBlanc as an ally of Swain granting Swain some sort of benefit in an area he lacks, you can reverse that for LeBlanc and say that having Swain as an ally would go a long way towards covering her lack of tactical experience.
I think you could say the same of any combination (except the Du Couteaus and Riven, Riven wouldn't make up for lacking military because what example are you setting when your Grand General is a known Deserter of the very nation she's supposed to be ruling? Katarina's not exactly tactical either.) Jericho works best however because him switching to LeBlanc mysteriously would just be really freaking weird and probably raise red flags. The people want to follow Jericho, the man who has lead them to victory or at least not complete and wholesale slaughter, so if LeBlanc came into power over him in a public way? I think Darius, at the very least, would be pretty pissed about it.

How much LeBlanc and Jericho play off of each other I can't really say for certain though. I mean, it's not like Riot has actually expanded upon what Noxus is doing aside from Sion's Lore ever since the Journal of Justice was discontinued.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
It actually wouldn't be difficult at all for LeBlanc to create a false identity for herself, like Lissandra has. She could pose as Lady Darkblade or some other made-up name, and look the part. Establishing herself in the eyes of the public would be the difficult step, but it's not like she lacks time to do so. I think LeBlanc allowed Swain to become Grand General for a reason. She probably has some scheme in mind (as it has been repeatedly alluded but never confirmed or explained).

I do agree that Noxus has been mostly left in the dust by the lore. They sure appear in other people's lores causing trouble, but other than that, we don't have much to go by.
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501st Big Mike
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I reserve the right to be loudly opinionated on subjects I am completely ignorant of

Just for some fun and theorizing on the Freljord Cvil War idea, here are the the champions in each of the subfactions.
  • Avarosan - Ashe, Anivia, Braum, Gragas, Nunu, and Tryndamere
  • Winter's Claw - Sejuani, Olaf, Udyr, and Volibear
  • Frostguard - Lissandra and Trundle

The other champions with reasonably strong connections to Freljord are Quinn and Gnar, both of which really only fit with Avarosan if used in a civil war scenario. If we placed them in and Lissandra on the Avarosan and Trundle one the Winter's Claw we have
  • Avarosan - Ashe, Anivia, Braum, Gragas, Nunu, Tryndamere, Quinn, Gnar, and Lissandra
  • Winter's Claw - Sejuani, Olaf, Udyr, Volibear, and Trundle

Avarosan is already a workable roster with those champions, but we could get a top lane champion from an allied faction (likely Demacia as they are already grabbing Quinn so its easier to explain just one faction helping lore wise) to give them a little maneuverability there, as well as appear a bit more fair when Winter's Claw gets some champions from an allied faction.

The Winter's Claw needs a Midlaner, an adc, and a supp (though they could use an off meta supp from their current roster if forced to). There are a few factions that could potentially work as an ally for Winter's Claw, but non that have super strong lore connections to make them the obvious choice. After looking into it, I think Bilge would be the best fit (pirates and raiders themes), I thought about several others but felt they had to be turned down for differing reasons. I would think bringing in Graves, Nami, and Twisted Fate (maybe fizz over tobias, but i think tf fits better theme wise than the light hearted fizz) should fill those missing roles. My first thought is they could use maybe one or 2 more champs to give them some other choices, but then again they have a plenthora of top and jungle choices and any more outside champs would really turn it into a bilge team rather than Winter's Claw (already it would likely have 3 of its 5 being bilge to fill those roles).
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BetaDude40
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A particularly tactical and affluent Void-Yordle
I think this thread has been horribly derailed. This topic really needs its own thread.
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ShadowKnight1224
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Every day is Lissandra Appreciation Day
I think Avarosa vs. Winter's Claw matches are a thing we could have, particularly whenever the Freljord is in an arc, with Lissandra going to Avarosa and Trundle to the Winter's Claw. That said, I would not frame them as actual Civil War stuff, but rather the two tribes resolving their conflicts on the fields instead of resorting to open warfare.

Doing them in the Howling Abyss might be best to avoid teamcomp problems (and it also fits thematically), but if they require a proper SR teamcomp, we could add in a couple of neutrals to make it an even 7 vs. 7.

Avarosa: Ashe, Braum, Anivia, Lissandra, Nunu, Tryndamere and Gragas.
Winter's Claw: Sejuani, Olaf, Volibear, Trundle, Udyr, Kindred (based on the lore about Winter's Claw warriors "kissing the wolf" and being the most welcoming of death) and Aatrox (fits the general attitude of the Winter's Claw and might be interested in testing Tryndamere in battle).

The Avarosans are way more well-rounded as a teamcomp, but the Winter's Claw still has an ADC and can run a train through the Avarosans through the sheer power of tank.
Edited by ShadowKnight1224, Apr 29 2016, 07:18 PM.
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Vetilac
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Prestigious Member of the Rainbow Clouds Association
Hello!

So I registered 5 days ago, and was wondering when my registration would be confirmed? I'm getting confused on what's happening right now; has the Bildgewater Ally Vote finished? Have the factions been decided? Can I still sign up for the Arc VIII?
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Endgame125
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Bird Fanatic George
Hey, so what's happening is that the ally vote for Bilge has ended (we picked the Freljord). The for Factions are: Icathia (The Void), Bandle City, Bilgewater and the Freljord. The sign-ups to the arc haven't opened up yet. I think that they're opening up on the 23rd of May.
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